Whisperwood

[Mcnumpty2323]

Let's not derail Katie's growing popularity with me feeling guilty that my poor health precludes further work on an apparently widely-regarded build log.

But thank you, I'm trying to get going again.

Sorry about your poor health
Find myself in the same situation
But if we can't do it ourselves
At least we are still able
To throw in some ideas to this thread
And live vicariously through what Katie279 is
Going to produce
Some of our ideas may even prove
Not to be totally rubbish for a change

 

[Jay85]

Let's not derail Katie's growing popularity with me feeling guilty that my poor health precludes further work on an apparently widely-regarded build log.

But thank you, I'm trying to get going again.

Here if you need mate, you know I'm just a convo away .

 

[Threepwood]

so would be brilliant to get any thoughts/brains on anything I should adjust

hi, my first thoughts are it looks like you may have warm air from the 4090 going through the aio radiator as an exhaust that will in turn reduce the cooling of your cpu which will create more heat, that will go through the aio rad too, I'd put a couple of fans on the side, pointing into the case blowing air inbetween the 4090, and the aio rad to help cool the air coming up from the 4090 thus providing the aio radiator with some cooler, fresh air , my set up is similar, in that the aio rad is above the 4090, but my corsair carbide500R has a big 200mm fan on the side blowing onto the 4090 , and between the 4090 and the aio rad, but it can still get pretty toasty in there, even with that, the 4090 is a hot card, it almost makes you think that it was made by amd!


if it had have fitted, I would have liked my aio rad to have gone into the front as an intake, not the top as an exhaust..
so, yeah, my thoughts are that you should use the aio as a front intake drawing cool air over the rad instead of using it as an exhaust drawing warm air through it
seen as it is wood, I would consider some largish screw in eyelets to route cables through, or will you make holes in the middle part of the case above the PSU, and next to the side of the Motherboard for easy routing between the two?
or even screw in pipe holders like this
HTH!!

 

[Drumroll]

hi, my first thoughts are it looks like you may have warm air from the 4090 going through the aio radiator as an exhaust that will in turn reduce the cooling of your cpu which will create more heat, that will go through the aio rad too, I'd put a couple of fans on the side, pointing into the case blowing air inbetween the 4090, and the aio rad to help cool the air coming up from the 4090 thus providing the aio radiator with some cooler, fresh air , my set up is similar, in that the aio rad is above the 4090, but my corsair carbide500R has a big 200mm fan on the side blowing onto the 4090 , and between the 4090 and the aio rad, but it can still get pretty toasty in there, even with that, the 4090 is a hot card, it almost makes you think that it was made by amd!


if it had have fitted, I would have liked my aio rad to have gone into the front as an intake, not the top as an exhaust..
so, yeah, my thoughts are that you should use the aio as a front intake drawing cool air over the rad instead of using it as an exhaust drawing warm air through it
seen as it is wood, I would consider some largish screw in eyelets to route cables through, or will you make holes in the middle part of the case above the PSU, and next to the side of the Motherboard for easy routing between the two?
or even screw in pipe holders like this
HTH!!

The 4090 will be more sensible to warmer air than the AM5 CPU. If it was a 13900/14900, them that would be an issue, as even - 360 AIO should perform at its best to allow it to work at its best.
The wood being slightly warmer than aluminium or steal would be, not an issue. Glass isn’t a brilliant thermal conductor, yet 99.99% of the cases use it as side panel.
Cool air coming in, warm air going out will do the cooling, unless a zero-rpm fan profile is used. GPUs, like the 4000 series have some overkill heatsinks. But even using such massive heatsinks, active cooling will kick in when needed.
I serious don’t believe the case would hold enough heat to irradiate it back to the components inside of it, unless you use passive cooling. Adding ANY fan to move air and the case impact, regarding its heat conductivity, is irrelevant. All the OP needs is a well ventilated design that allow fans to efficiently move air, without hot pockets, at as low RPM as possible.

 

[katie279]

Great thoughts/ideas - by default I'd got the AIO as an exhaust (just a tweak that it's the 420, not the 360) - help me with my logic on the intake idea?

I guess I'd see it as:
Intake = 3 x 140mm fans taking air from room temp to the CPU/Case - so the variance here would be greater (a good thing) than running the heated air that the AIO would conduct?

Outside 18C > AIO 30C > CPU 80C = Temp variation of 50C

vs

Outside 18C > CPU 80C = Temp variation of 62C

Then obviously the slightly warmed air from the AIO I'd just want to get out the case? (hence exhaust)

 

[katie279]

seen as it is wood, I would consider some largish screw in eyelets to route cables through, or will you make holes in the middle part of the case above the PSU, and next to the side of the Motherboard for easy routing between the two?
or even screw in pipe holders like this
HTH!!

I think I'll either laser cut/CNC holes or create wooden/3d printed grommets to give a neat finish on these. Think this will run behind the mounting board for the motherboard to keep cables tidy and then pop through similar holes around the MB itself? (if that makes sense!?)

 

[Mcnumpty2323]

If possible
Make 3 x 140mm fans/420mm AOI
Be able to switch positions
Your case is unique
Only real way you will find out which works best
Is by trying both options

Yes an AIO front as intake will lower cpu temps
By a few degrees
But unless you use a duct/have AIO in separate chamber
To immediately exhaust the air
The hot air from it will then
Go onto gpu and motherboard components etc

Have tried AIO as both intake and exhaust
Quite a few times in different pc cases
Not in any scientific way must admit
But cpu and gpu temperature There wasn't any huge difference
Either way around
Unless your components were already
On the bleeding edge temperature wise the difference
Probably won't matter
One way cpu temperature may be a bit better
But other components a bit warmer
And vice versa
Basically plenty airflow seems to matter more

 

[Drumroll]

The 420 AIO won’t ever be saturated by the CPU you’re using. Even if the air feeding it is 5C or 10C (which o think is overestimating), the only difference will be idle temperature, as the full load won’t be limited by the AIO. If it was an Intel 14900K, then I would suggest optimising the layout for the CPU (AIO) intake, but as exhaust, the only thing not getting as cool as possible air will be the AIO, but as it is overkill for your CPU, that won’t matter.
On the other hand, your GPU will boost as long as possible.
Also, don’t forget that isn’t only the GPU warmer air being fed to the AIO. Anything from middle to top of the intake will go straight to the AIO, and help move warmer air from the GPU to the back, before reaching the AIO. Just the end of the AIO (next to the rear of the case) should be getting warmer air.

 

[Threepwood]

(if that makes sense!?)

perfect sense that's is how all the modern cases do it, it does work well, i'd still think about adding a fan or two on the side, facing between the gpu and the 4090 or at least put 140 fans as your intake/ exhaust, (I was really surprised how warm the 4090 gets, I should undervolt it, and see what happens then-

 

[katie279]

Super - yes, just to be clear, I've got 3 x 140mm fans on the front/side, looking to put 1 x 140mm in the base, then a 420 AIO at top as exhaust and 1 x 140mm at the back as another exhaust. Does this sound like it'd work?

 

[Mcnumpty2323]

Yes sounds like will work fine
Can even experiment with flipping
The rear 140mm to intake
And compare the results to exhausting
As intake will feed cooler air to top mounted AIO
And around the cpu socket area

Can't really shove some fans on the side
As suggested
Due to it would mess up the aesthetics

Edit
And yes
A bit of undervolting the gpu/set reduced power limit too
May result in less heat and power consumption
A voltage curve worked wonders
On my 3080ti
From 400w down to 280w
And very little performance difference
Might show in benchmarks
But real life use I haven't noticed it
Since already cranking out a lot of fps
@1440p maybe @4k might be more noticeable though

 

[riddler]

Oh don't you worry about that - just want to get thoughts early on layout to avoid massive rework when someone points out I've got the motherboard the wrong way round or something!
It's getting more bonkers by the day, little sneak peek below!

Side panel will be carved wood with a glass/acrylic cut out I think - will look nice with the LEDs shining through little gaps in the walnut.

Thinking of a blend from industrial/sci-fi sort of feel to an organic effect.

Whoa!

 

[Mcnumpty2323]

Whoa! Indeed lol

Actually reading that again
It's totally custom
You can put the motherboard in any
Orientation you feel like
Doesn't have to be the bog standard Orientation
If you don't want to

 

[5abr3]

This projects looks really good (so good in fact it has brought me out of not posting for about 8 years )

Regarding the grille's experiment on your YouTube, have you seen anything of Noctua's work on fan spacing to grille's and the impact that has on resonant noise (they hint at it on their inlet spacer product page: https://noctua.at/en/noctua-introdu...-suction-applications-and-na-savg2-gasket-set )? I would imagine the filter's will probably provide enough speration to avoid that problem where you may have fans without a radiator in between the fan and filter so may be worth experimenting with if the noise is more than you expect when built.

 

[katie279]

This projects looks really good (so good in fact it has brought me out of not posting for about 8 years )

Regarding the grille's experiment on your YouTube, have you seen anything of Noctua's work on fan spacing to grille's and the impact that has on resonant noise (they hint at it on their inlet spacer product page: https://noctua.at/en/noctua-introdu...-suction-applications-and-na-savg2-gasket-set )? I would imagine the filter's will probably provide enough speration to avoid that problem where you may have fans without a radiator in between the fan and filter so may be worth experimenting with if the noise is more than you expect when built.

Love you 5abr3!!!! This is awesome! I love technology details like this!!! Definitely worth testing - actually you've given me a great idea - I can print a TPU separator between them and that'll be an excellent dampener - will add to the list! One of the brilliant advantages of using wood is it kills so many of these challenges dead - eg static/conductivity is no longer a problem and likewise the acoustic performance of hardwood is miles ahead compared with the flimsy aluminum panels in usual cases - so think there's a good chance I can aim for some really silent levels!

Here's a sneak peek of the first CNC test of the front of the case as a prize for being awesome :

Came out much smoother than I expected, need to consider some stuff that you won't be interested in - eg rasterised vs vectorised toolpathing on the cuts, but the 'fragility' test was passed easier than I thought. Although I'm going into super charming mode as I need to persuade the other half I need to upgrade my CNC.... I've just have a niggle about relying on a belt-driven build for such a lot of detailed walnut work - plywood sits around 300-400 hardness, whereas walnut is 1000+ so it gets pretty challenging.....!

 

[Mcnumpty2323]

Those branches "floating " in free space
Are just amazing
Obviously knew you could carve it into the wood
But didn't really visualise the wood being
Carved away to leave only branches
If that makes sense

 

[katie279]

Those branches "floating " in free space
Are just amazing
Obviously knew you could carve it into the wood
But didn't really visualise the wood being
Carved away to leave only branches
If that makes sense

Yep I think it could work quite nicely actually! I will put acrylic behind it for stability and need to think about some nice lighting and features behind this, but think it'll work nicely!

I think some elements will be better done 'by eye', so I'll get the broad shape done and then for the fine details like bark, branch effects etc, I'll just whip out the dremel with a carving bit and tweak away.

I also think the 'industrial' bits can be brought out more - so I'll probably cut all the way through for the vent grooves at the top right and bottom left. Also I'll enhance the grooves around the outside to make them more pronounced (most of this is due to plywood having a rough pattern, but I'll bring it out nonetheless).

 

[Mcnumpty2323]

Yep I think it could work quite nicely actually! I will put acrylic behind it for stability and need to think about some nice lighting and features behind this, but think it'll work nicely!

I think some elements will be better done 'by eye', so I'll get the broad shape done and then for the fine details like bark, branch effects etc, I'll just whip out the dremel with a carving bit and tweak away.

I also think the 'industrial' bits can be brought out more - so I'll probably cut all the way through for the vent grooves at the top right and bottom left. Also I'll enhance the grooves around the outside to make them more pronounced (most of this is due to plywood having a rough pattern, but I'll bring it out nonetheless).

we already knew
you were doing an amazing job
the fact your build log
brought someone out of lurking for 8 years
just to comment on it
shows just how interested people are
in what youre achieving

maybe theres a market
for your bespoke pc cases
once we get to see the final results?
wouldnt be cheap obviously
but there are already pc cases that cost over 1k and people buy them
unique items like this would carry a hefty premium
for those who have the money

 

[katie279]

Thanks McNumpty, very kind of you to say - obviously need to get it done first - but you haven't seen half of the stuff I'm plotting! (eg the 'brains' in the case so it can communicate things like temperature, GPU load and more!)

So many ideas, but to your point a lot of this is actually quire reproduceable once made - ie I've got the illustrator, photoshop, CAD files, STL files, GCODE etc - so once done once, it'd be much less work to do the second time (or third)....!

 

[5abr3]

Love you 5abr3!!!! This is awesome! I love technology details like this!!! Definitely worth testing - actually you've given me a great idea - I can print a TPU separator between them and that'll be an excellent dampener - will add to the list! One of the brilliant advantages of using wood is it kills so many of these challenges dead - eg static/conductivity is no longer a problem and likewise the acoustic performance of hardwood is miles ahead compared with the flimsy aluminum panels in usual cases - so think there's a good chance I can aim for some really silent levels!

I have a reel of TPU I keep meaning to break out on one of my printer heads but it's PLA all the way at the minute out of sheer laziness, really need to finish some of the half complete projects I have... Anyway: conductivity shouldn't be a problem and if it does become one I think we are beyond worrying about sound levels and need at least some marigolds

If you don't already have a sound meter and you want to have a play with it on the low cost path (helping save pennies for that CNC upgrade ) I would suggest you take a look at the iNVH app from Bosch, the free version is good for getting an indication on overall sound levels (have to pay to get the good stuff like the frequency isolation features but the NVH guys I've worked with seem to like it as a good ballparking tool). You just have to remember to keep the measurement locations and conditions consitent test to test if you want to make meaningful comparisons (typical 1m away from source but that's not always practical). I feel that I may be just feeding the experimentation bug more though now

Here's a sneak peek of the first CNC test of the front of the case as a prize for being awesome :

Spoiler: IMG

Came out much smoother than I expected, need to consider some stuff that you won't be interested in - eg rasterised vs vectorised toolpathing on the cuts, but the 'fragility' test was passed easier than I thought. Although I'm going into super charming mode as I need to persuade the other half I need to upgrade my CNC.... I've just have a niggle about relying on a belt-driven build for such a lot of detailed walnut work - plywood sits around 300-400 hardness, whereas walnut is 1000+ so it gets pretty challenging.....!

That's looking good!

On rasterised vs vectorised, I am interested but I may well be in the minority as usualy there (always interesting to see considerations for other things, they often turn out to be useul in unexpected ways). However, in the interests of safety I'll be interested "from afar"; the last time I used a CNC machine I ended up being blamed for putting a large score in the bed of the brand new CNC machine at my high school on the day it was comissioned (as the first user too...). In my defense I blame the clamp that disintegrated, pretty sure I was the only pupil to ever use that and the teachers took over all "loading and hitting go" responsibilites after that