2008 Malaysian GP - Race 2/18

[JRS]

JRS - Why do you continue to watch and get involved in Formula 1 when clearly so much about it annoys you?

I'm just curious is all .

I've told you this before.

I complain so much about it because I care about it. I want to see actual racing, not a glorified procession where no bugger can overtake due to aero dependency. I want F1 to be the pinnacle of motorsport. What we have now....isn't. I'll continue to watch F1, continue to hope that the on-track action will improve, hope that Max Mosely buggers off, hope that people on here will wake up and realise that Bernie Ecclestone is in face NOT Satan (might have to wait a while for that one) but is merely a businessman, hope that the Hungarian GP will get canned and hope that Steve Rider and Mark Blundell will get nuked from orbit. On camera. After all, it would be the only way to be sure.


***edit***

Plus, he knows that he is in a privileged position to be watching the best driver ever to race in F1, race. He'll tell his grand kids, "I was there when Hamilton won 8 races in a row."

I might tell them about Nigel Mansell and Ayrton Senna contesting the final laps of the '92 Monaco GP. Or Michael Schumacher getting on the podium in every single race in 2002. Or the epic overtake that Mika Hakkinen pulled on MS on Spa in 2000.

But I just can't get excited about The Messiah™ yet, I'm afraid. Maybe by the end of this year I'll be a convert. We'll see.

 

[knip]

hope that Steve Rider and Mark Blundell will get nuked from orbit. On camera. After all, it would be the only way to be sure.

Ok so I mainly agreed with this statement, and the bit about Mosley

 

[Memphis]

I've told you this before.

I complain so much about it because I care about it. I want to see actual racing, not a glorified procession where no bugger can overtake due to aero dependency. I want F1 to be the pinnacle of motorsport. What we have now....isn't. I'll continue to watch F1, continue to hope that the on-track action will improve, hope that Max Mosely buggers off, hope that people on here will wake up and realise that Bernie Ecclestone is in face NOT Satan (might have to wait a while for that one) but is merely a businessman, hope that the Hungarian GP will get canned and hope that Steve Rider and Mark Blundell will get nuked from orbit. On camera. After all, it would be the only way to be sure.

Ok, and that all seems absolutely fair to me, but what if it doesn't change? Or gets worse? And surely you can't hold it against those of us who, while we agree, actually don't mind F1 as it is now?

I agree, it's not what it was, but then it wouldn't be would it? Times change. Admittedly I don't like where F1 is headed, and I certainly don't like what Mad Max has done to the sport, but at the end of the day I enjoy watching F1 on a Sunday. I'm sure I always will.

Oh and I agree with nuking Steve and Mark. I swear to god Mark just makes up sentences by picking random words from the dictionary.

 

[Slam62]

You're right, I think I was being unfair.....




to donkeys

 

[JRS]

Ok, and that all seems absolutely fair to me, but what if it doesn't change? Or gets worse? And surely you can't hold it against those of us who, while we agree, actually don't mind F1 as it is now?

Well, you can always stick me on "ignore" you know. You aren't forced to read my griping

I agree, it's not what it was, but then it wouldn't be would it? Times change. Admittedly I don't like where F1 is headed, and I certainly don't like what Mad Max has done to the sport, but at the end of the day I enjoy watching F1 on a Sunday. I'm sure I always will.

There's a difference between the sport changing as safety standards increase and technology changes, and the sport disappearing as most of the creativity gets mercilessly stamped out by the rulebook.

Christ, if they want a spec series - make it a spec series. It'll be wonderful racing for the 2-3 years before all the teams get bored and sod off.

Oh and I agree with nuking Steve and Mark. I swear to god Mark just makes up sentences by picking random words from the dictionary.

I wonder if his voice is being produced by an infinite number of monkeys hammering away at the controls to a voice synthesiser?

Hmmm......

You're right, I think I was being unfair.....




to donkeys

Ah, there we go. That's the Slam62 we all know and love.

 

[sunama]

I might tell them about Nigel Mansell and Ayrton Senna contesting the final laps of the '92 Monaco GP.

That was the first ever live F1 race I saw and from there on in, I was hooked. I was a huge Mansell fan. Though it looked terrific watching Senna defend, it wasnt too difficult, given that the cars were wider (than they are today) and overtaking at Monaco, was virtually impossible. Senna was great at defending his position though.

After the 1992 season, I went back and watched videos of the previous seasons. 1991 was a cracker.

But I just can't get excited about The Messiah™ yet, I'm afraid. Maybe by the end of this year I'll be a convert. We'll see.

I actually say what I say about Hamilton, in jest.

If I was a team manager and could choose any driver in F1 right now, to drive for me, I would choose Alonso, as I feel he is the most complete driver right now. I do feel though, that if Hamilton wins the title this year and puts in some impressive performances (like last year), without getting rattled (like last year), then he will have taken a big step forward in his F1 education and will go some way to proving that he is really is a "great", in the making.

 

[JRS]

That was the first ever live F1 race I saw and from there on in, I was hooked. I was a huge Mansell fan. Though it looked terrific watching Senna defend, it wasnt too difficult, given that the cars were wider (than they are today) and overtaking at Monaco, was virtually impossible. Senna was great at defending his position though.

If anyone could have gotten by, it would have been Mansell. This is the guy who started 12th in '89 at Hungary and blew everyone else into the weeds. The fact that he'd made some impossible overtaking moves stick over the years made me believe he could get by Senna in that race. That was what was so mesmerising about those laps.

 

[Glaucus]

There's a difference between the sport changing as safety standards increase and technology changes, and the sport disappearing as most of the creativity gets mercilessly stamped out by the rulebook.

So true, so true .
What inventions have we seen in f1 in the last 10 years. When have wee seen a radical shift in design. It's depressing that we are unlikely to ever see that again. I can't see the rule book getting anything other than more strict. But F1 is not meant to be identical cars.

 

[Mr Jack]

But I just can't get excited about The Messiah™ yet, I'm afraid. Maybe by the end of this year I'll be a convert. We'll see.

He has tended to gather points by beig supremely competent rather than supremely exciting, it's true.

As for F1, I agree, it should be the pinnacle of motorsport, but at the moment the racing is poor. MotoGp is far better on that front. Yes, the last race was exciting but it wasn't the racing making it so.

 

[sunama]

If anyone could have gotten by, it would have been Mansell.

I see your point. Especially when you consider that Mansell was on fresh tyres and probably (at that point), at least 3s/lap faster than Senna. It was breathtaking, which is why I got hooked on F1, after seeing tha race. Plus knowing that a Brit was leading the championship attracted me even more.

 

[JRS]

F1 is not meant to be identical cars.

But that's obviously what the rule makers want. They brought in standard ECUs to stop driver aids being used. What's next? Standard wings? Standard engines?

1993 was the last of the "high technology" years. 22 drivers scored at least 1 point. Contrary to popular opinion at the FIA, a fairly open set of rules doesn't kill off the show.

 

[Overlag]

Do F1 cars actually have a fuel gauge?

nope

just a low pressure light and normally thats too late

 

[schumi84]

I see your point. Especially when you consider that Mansell was on fresh tyres and probably (at that point), at least 3s/lap faster than Senna. It was breathtaking, which is why I got hooked on F1, after seeing tha race. Plus knowing that a Brit was leading the championship attracted me even more.

The main problem that Mansell had was that Senna's tyres were so worn, if you watch it he is swinging the back end a mile so mansell has no chance, due to Senna blocking the inside line and with the back of the car stopping Mansell go round the outside (if that was even possible round Monaco).

Was a fantastic race, and great when the cars could follow so close behind each other through the corner, get in the slipstream and slingshot passed.

 

[Sparky]

So true, so true .
What inventions have we seen in f1 in the last 10 years. When have wee seen a radical shift in design. It's depressing that we are unlikely to ever see that again. I can't see the rule book getting anything other than more strict. But F1 is not meant to be identical cars.

And you understand the laws of Physics? There is only a certain amount that wind tunnel design can push design forwards. Makes me laugh how some people think F1 should create flying cars or something.

 

[Glaucus]

But it's not just wind tunnels. Designers can barley design anything any more. Be it engine, electronics or aero. It's all far to heavily restricted.

But that's obviously what the rule makers want. They brought in standard ECUs to stop driver aids being used. What's next? Standard wings? Standard engines?

1993 was the last of the "high technology" years. 22 drivers scored at least 1 point. Contrary to popular opinion at the FIA, a fairly open set of rules doesn't kill off the show.

It's only a matter of time before standard wings come in .
The sooner Bernie Ecclestone retires or dies the better.

 

[Sparky]

No its not.The envelope for design is huge compared to 20 years ago,the problem is there is only so far you can go.

 

[Overlag]

But that's obviously what the rule makers want. They brought in standard ECUs to stop driver aids being used. What's next? Standard wings? Standard engines?

1993 was the last of the "high technology" years. 22 drivers scored at least 1 point. Contrary to popular opinion at the FIA, a fairly open set of rules doesn't kill off the show.

1993 may have been good but how many people died in 1994? The Correct answer is too many.

While i agree with your comments about rule books killing the sport, and now Standard ECUs etc, How else was they supposed to get rid of TC?

Some of the Electronics of the top end cars was absolute class, now its mostly gone, but at least its putting the control back towards the driver, and not a computer.

Without TC, and with slicks returning the sport might be heading back in the right direction. Now all we need is a return of ground effect (which isn't effected that much by close racing) and the removal of all the sidepod flipups, and turning vanes... 1996 cars maybe?

Personally i think it would be great if the rule book only defined the Cell the driver sits in, deformable structures in the nose and engine/gearbox area, and maybe set widths/sizes of wings.... Other than that its up to you how your car looks.



However the Nascar talk makes me Ill, they overtake TOO much, i much more prefer races like Malaysia and Imola where Michael and Alonso fought for a fair few laps.... if Overtaking was easy they would have breezed past the guy and disappeared into the distance... instead the driver behind had to try different lines, and dummy overtaking moves to try and trick his opponent into a mistake.

Far better than Nascar where they only turn left and overtake 1000s of times a race. Same with BTCC, sure they overtake loads, but its Banger racing.....

 

[Glaucus]

No its not.The envelope for design is huge compared to 20 years ago,the problem is there is only so far you can go.

But it's not most things are banned and what's not is heavily restricted. We need to go back to where designers can design and cars can and are different.

 

[Sparky]

Wont make much differnce now though,thats the point.The drag coefficient of design is almost at a pinnacle. Treaded tyres tried to reduce the downforce modern chassis's achieve but was only a stopgap. If F1 really wanted to be the forefront of design they would allow Turbo's,slicks etc.

To many people in the FIA want it as a nice safe Sunday day out.

 

[Glaucus]

Wont make much differnce now though,thats the point.The drag coefficient of design is almost at a pinnacle. Treaded tyres tried to reduce the downforce modern chassis's achieve but was only a stopgap. If F1 really wanted to be the forefront of design they would allow Turbo's,slicks etc.

But there only as far as the strict size restrictions allow.
But as you say every part should have freedom for design. If something really good comes out perhaps ban it the next season.
As some one else said it should be more or less just the cockpit that is restricted to keep the driver safe.