Ati 4850 price released.

grudas · 17 Jun 2008 at 13:20

easyrider said:
Who runs their GFX cards at stock!

i do

Greebo · 17 Jun 2008 at 13:25

GeneralD said:
Agreed, but they can to an extent get away with ripping off the high end gamers, but much less inclinded to screw around with the budgent/mid end that makes up more of there income. They wouldnt get away with a £200 that is supposedly a budget card, I dont think even bill gates would consider that a budget! Sub £150 my money is on, and a £199 for the 4870.

Martyn

Well, based on $199 and $349 my money is on £130-£150 and £230-£250 for the 4850 and 4870.

No way will the 4870 be £199 over here (not for 6 weeks anyway) as $349 = £178.97 plus VAT = £210.30 as a minimum ignoring import duty and any extra for it being for the European market and not the US.

ANybody who thinks ATI will sell the card to us for less than the Americans need help IMO.

pugheaven · 17 Jun 2008 at 13:36

Greebo said:
too much variation in 3dmark06 scores to compare unless the reviewer does it on the same rig.. My 3.8 quad with a GTS G92 at 850/2100/2200 only got 15683 and i'm 3rd on the database on this forum for single gpu/quad core.

And comparing overclocked cards to stock cards is irrelevant. What happens when you run the 4850 at 900Mhz instead of 600Mhz?

Okay fair point, you can't compare overlcocked to unclocked, so dug out my stock 8800GT score... 8800GT single card was 14303 (CPU at 3.5ghz again) which is STILL around give or take what the 4850 will be scoring... basically they're the same performance, one will beat the other in certain games etc etc... the point is when the buyer come to part with their cash, I reckon most will go for the Ati, simply because it's newer and can only get better... with drivers etc unless they've got a certain alegence to a make... if it were me, I simply look for the best VFM and bang per buck... it's going to seriously bring budget prices right down I reckon though... what with thw 9600GT, 8800GT and 4850 all vying for that budget gamer sector... all around the £90-£130 quid mark...

Cheers Pug

Greebo · 17 Jun 2008 at 13:40

pugheaven said:
Okay fair point, you can't compare overlcocked to unclocked, so dug out my stock 8800GT score... 8800GT single card was 14303 (CPU at 3.5ghz again) which is STILL around give or take what the 4850 will be scoring... basically they're the same performance, one will beat the other in certain games etc etc... the point is when the buyer come to part with their cash, I reckon most will go for the Ati, simply because it's newer and can only get better... with drivers etc unless they've got a certain alegence to a make... if it were me, I simply look for the best VFM and bang per buck... it's going to seriously bring budget prices right down I reckon though... what with thw 9600GT, 8800GT and 4850 all vying for that budget gamer sector... all around the £90-£130 quid mark...

Cheers Pug

All very true but I would never base my decision on 3dmark06 alone anyway. The key will be performance in games with 2/4xAA.

And some reports show a 40% gain over the GT so would you care if it was the same 3dmark06 score?

Steedie · 17 Jun 2008 at 13:46

Are these cards still out tomorrow?

Scougar · 17 Jun 2008 at 13:53

I posted the "wouldn't be surprised £200ish price" given the extreme cost of the latest cards. ATI will be quite happy to charge more for their cards in order to make bigger profits and claw some finances back. To think that they wouldn't take the opportunity to do so would mean they are more focused on screwing Nvidia over at the moment than making money. I really don't think AMD as a whole can afford to do that.

It really depends on the overall performance doesn't it, which basically is still up in the air, regardless of 'leaked' or 'early release' reviews.

If they really are only £130-150, seriously considering trying to finance they move to an HD4850

Matthew

gurusan · 17 Jun 2008 at 13:57

waso_dude said:
Hope they have waterblocks on release day, i might be tempted to buy a pr for crossfire then, or a single 4870 for now, then another in a few weeks

Same mounting pattern as the 7900, x1900, g92, 38xx...unless you want a full cover block...but IMO they are a waste. They are only for looks and never perform as well.

p4radox · 17 Jun 2008 at 13:58

I'm sure this will be just like the release of every other new gen card. Massively inflated prices for a few weeks until the stock arrives, then a more sensible price for the sensible consumer who waits.

Scougar · 17 Jun 2008 at 14:00

You reckon? I have a feeling they will be released higher priced than expected though and not sure the ati price will actually fall that much (unless the 8 series stuff seriously decreases in retail price).

Matthew

gurusan · 17 Jun 2008 at 14:00

p4radox said:
I'm sure this will be just like the release of every other new gen card. Massively inflated prices for a few weeks until the stock arrives, then a more sensible price for the sensible consumer who waits.

I got my Powercolor 3850 512mb OC for 115 just a little after launch. At the time it was well worth it at that price.

p4radox · 17 Jun 2008 at 14:02

gurusan said:
I got my Powercolor 3850 512mb OC for 115 just a little after launch. At the time it was well worth it at that price.

Fair enough.

But the 3850 wasn't really "new" technology was it? I thought it was the same core as the 2*** but on a smaller manufacturing process...

gurusan · 17 Jun 2008 at 14:04

No, it wasn't really new, but the 4850 isn't groundbreaking either.

but to be fair I would expect prices to be higher than 115. I can always hope though.

TheGamingGeneral · 17 Jun 2008 at 14:04

Greebo said:
Well, based on $199 and $349 my money is on £130-£150 and £230-£250 for the 4850 and 4870.

No way will the 4870 be £199 over here (not for 6 weeks anyway) as $349 = £178.97 plus VAT = £210.30 as a minimum ignoring import duty and any extra for it being for the European market and not the US.

ANybody who thinks ATI will sell the card to us for less than the Americans need help IMO.

How is £200 less than the Americans?

Tbh, am not counting import duty so inflate that price accordingly, however, am going off $329+VAT ~ £200 range. Any price gouging, supply problems would have to be applied to the American figure aswell, I dont see how that makes us pay less than the Americans (at £200)? Or am I missing something in that logic (am not being sarcastic btw)?

Edit: Maybe my maths is wrong. $329/1.949=£169 + 17.5% VAT (£30ish) = £199 (+ that import duty, whatever it actually is).

Martyn

gurusan · 17 Jun 2008 at 14:06

If America is getting them significantly cheaper I'll just get a buddy to bring me over one

SS-89 · 17 Jun 2008 at 14:16

Looking at getting a 4850 and coupling it with an 8200 and 4gb for a second build.

Greebo · 17 Jun 2008 at 14:35

GeneralD said:
How is £200 less than the Americans?

Tbh, am not counting import duty so inflate that price accordingly, however, am going off $329+VAT ~ £200 range. Any price gouging, supply problems would have to be applied to the American figure aswell, I dont see how that makes us pay less than the Americans (at £200)? Or am I missing something in that logic (am not being sarcastic btw)?

Edit: Maybe my maths is wrong. $329/1.949=£169 + 17.5% VAT (£30ish) = £199 (+ that import duty, whatever it actually is).

Martyn

Err, 4870 is $349 is list price now isn't it? Sorry that was what I was working on. And import duty is 10% AFIK so that should be £219 if your list price of $329 is right.

Owenb · 17 Jun 2008 at 14:39

Greebo said:
Nope it's got 800SP

I doubt it, i think the 480 figure will be the right one for a number of reasons:

From what we have seen the 4850 is basically a 8800gt, which is a little slower than i hoped for.

Now lets do some basic calcs for a 3870 vs 4850.

775mhz vs 625mhz = 80%

320SP vs 480SP = 150%

Thats gives a 20% increase from the 3870 which would 8800gt like performance. Pure guess work but if it really had 800SP then it would GT200 competitor but with huge bandwidth issues.

Also Tomshardware probably know the number of SP but can't give it due to a NDA. However they can just link to pages that have the right info, which is what they are doing here and they do stress the fact that there has been confusion over the number of SP but that 480 has now shown to be the right number. Again just speculation on my part.

OTOH there is a lot of talk about 1Teraflops which can't be done with 480SP at those clocks.

Lightnix · 17 Jun 2008 at 14:53

Raw shader power is deceiving, the 3870 X2 has more than the GTX 280 or 9800 GX2 but certainly doesn't outperform either of them very often. IIRC W1zzard, the creator of GPU-Z has a 4850, and incidentally the newest version of GPU-Z is reporting 800 shaders on the 4850.

Also, consider the jump from R520 to R580. Three times the amount of pixel shaders (16 -> 48). And guess what?

R520: 320 million transistors.
R580: 384 million transistors.

An even smaller transistor increase than we're seeing with the RV670 -> RV770 2.5x increase from 320 to 800 shaders. I think people overestimate how many transistors the shader units need.

Greebo · 17 Jun 2008 at 14:55

Owenb said:
I doubt it, i think the 480 figure will be the right one for a number of reasons:

From what we have seen the 4850 is basically a 8800gt, which is a little slower than i hoped for.

Now lets do some basic calcs for a 3870 vs 4850.

775mhz vs 625mhz = 80%

320SP vs 480SP = 150%

Thats gives a 20% increase from the 3870 which would 8800gt like performance. Pure guess work but if it really had 800SP then it would GT200 competitor but with huge bandwidth issues.

Also Tomshardware probably know the number of SP but can't give it due to a NDA. However they can just link to pages that have the right info, which is what they are doing here and they do stress the fact that there has been confusion over the number of SP but that 480 has now shown to be the right number. Again just speculation on my part.

OTOH there is a lot of talk about 1Teraflops which can't be done with 480SP at those clocks.

Well I am going on the review on xtreme forums by Jimmyz. He has pics of the cards, contents, benchmarks on a daily basis.

I can't link to it as it contains the link to the us website he bought it from. Both he and the website list it as 800SP. Google it.

Wizzard who writes gpu-z is also saying it's 800SP.

There has been links on this forum which lists the card by ATI as having over 1teraflops performance and as you have stated already, it can't do that with 480SP.

In fact, ATI's whole campaign is that both cards are over 1 teraflops.

doesn't the whole Teraflop marketing campaign prove that it has 800SP?!

1Teraflop = 800 shaders X 2 flops per unit X 625mhz
1Teraflop = 480 shaders X 2 flops per unit X 1040mhz!!!

And it sure as hell is not clocked at 1ghz +

And with 800SP and the 256bit bus with 512Mb ddr3 memory is will be bottlenecked hence the 4870 which will let the gpu shine.

I do so hope I am right as if the 4850 is only 480SP then it will be a bit of a damp squid.

However, reviewers of the GTX280 have said they would have been more impressed by it if they hadn't already tested the 4850 so there is hope it will be 800SP.

EDIT: Amazon have been known to get the specs wrong before now

Greebo · 17 Jun 2008 at 15:06

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11906696&postcount=1016

Amd are saying the 4850 will be 75% of the performance of the GTX280 and in crossfire be 30% quicker :eek:

It can't do that if only 480SP and 20% quicker than a GT.

Even with one, 75% of the performance of a GTX280 means it's much faster than a 8800GT. The GTX260 is 84% of the performance of the GTX280 so that will make the 4850 about 10% slower than a GTX260 for less than half the price.

If true, and god I hope it is, the 4850 is going to be the next 8800GT IMO