F1 2009 Season discussion/development thread

JRS

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sunama said:
The Bennetton was certainly easy for MS to drive.
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He did actually comment later on that it was a bit twitchy even for him. The Schumacher of 1993-1994 as far as car development goes was probably nowhere near as good as he later became.

sunama said:
Unfortunately, JJ Lehto, Jos Verstappen, Johnny Herbert, etc were unable to adapt or get anywhere near the performance that MS was able to extract from the machine.
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Herbert noted that it was always in the high-speed corners where he lost time to Schumacher. In slower corners, they were pretty evenly matched. And Herbert did take a couple of wins in the B195 - okay, so Schumacher had been taken off the road by Hill on both occasions, but Herbert at least was in a position to capitalise when that happened.
 

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JRS said:
He did actually comment later on that it was a bit twitchy even for him.
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Well, no car is going to be perfect. There is always room for improvement. But the Bennetton was as close to perfect in 1994, as any F1 car. This was born out by the results.

JRS said:
The Schumacher of 1993-1994 as far as car development goes was probably nowhere near as good as he later became.
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Indeed.

I think all the guys at Bennetton who later moved to Ferrari were learning their trade during these years. They learnt, as a team, to produce a winning package, before packing their bags and plying their trade for a higher wage, at Ferrari.

JRS said:
... okay, so Schumacher had been taken off the road by Hill on both occasions, but Herbert at least was in a position to capitalise when that happened.
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That is the very definition of what a No.2 driver should be doing. Unfortunately, McLaren have a lemon as their No.2, even though there would probably be a queue of decent drivers wanting a seat in the McLaren.
 

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sunama said:
Unfortunately, McLaren have a lemon as their No.2, even though there would probably be a queue of decent drivers wanting a seat in the McLaren.
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Ah, but any 2nd driver at McLaren is going to have to defer to Hamilton aren't they? That's why McLaren signed Heikki in the first place - he won't challenge The Messiah™ the way Alonso did.
 

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ShakenNstirred said:
wasnt it the other way round, Alonso thought he had a team mate that wouldnt challenge him, how wrong he was and it did his head in big time
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Yes, in 2007 Alonso had been assured of full No 1 status in the McLaren team. And why wouldn't he? World champion twice in a row, rookie team-mate....he expected the team to be behind him come what may.

A few things happened that upset that particular apple cart. Firstly - Hamilton turned out to be pretty bloody good. Secondly - McLaren decided that they'd put all their eggs in the Hamilton basket rather than concentrate on the guy who had a proven ability to win titles. Thirdly - McLaren were proven to be incompetent at cheating in the Spygate affair. And they paid the price - they lost both titles to Ferrari and Kimi who peaked at exactly the right moment.

But I wasn't talking about the 2007 campaign itself. I was talking about the fall-out from 2007 - and how it influenced McLaren's driver choice. I can't imagine they said to themselves after 2007 "Hey, having two drivers fighting each other to the point of completely nerfing our chances at a title was great! Lets do that again!". I'm pretty sure the conversation went more like "Hey, we've got a driver here that can win titles. Lets hire a guy that won't get in the way of that".
 

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Duke said:
...must...resist...suggesting...a...certain...English...driver...
:D
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Actually, I would love to see Button in the 2nd McLaren. I'm positive he would've had a chance to secure that seat for 2008, but alas, he preferred not to go up against Hamilton and to play around at the back of the grid where he would be away from the spot-light.

JRS said:
Ah, but any 2nd driver at McLaren is going to have to defer to Hamilton aren't they? That's why McLaren signed Heikki in the first place - he won't challenge The Messiah™ the way Alonso did.
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I wasnt suggesting that McLaren should've hired Massa, Kimi, Vettel, Kubica or any other top line driver. They could've hired Barrichello, for example, safe in the knowledge that he is an excellent No.2 driver and would be able to mop up the points behind Hamilton. Dare I say that he is available for 2009 and they still have a chance to off-load the mis-firing Heikki and get a decent No.2.

Barrichello would bring a lot of experience and would even be able to educate Hamilton on the sorts of things MS used to do to gain an advantage. Remember, Hamilton is not squeaky clean by any means and would probably love to be "coached" in the (dirty) ways of MS, to improve his ability to win races and world titles. MS knew when to drive clean and when to drive dirty - he was the most complete driver in F1, ever. Hamilton could benefit.

Oh and does anybody know when the next test is scheduled for?
 

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JRS said:
I can't imagine they said to themselves after 2007 "Hey, having two drivers fighting each other to the point of completely nerfing our chances at a title was great! Lets do that again!". I'm pretty sure the conversation went more like "Hey, we've got a driver here that can win titles. Lets hire a guy that won't get in the way of that".
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Yeah, but they didnt need to hire someone as incompetent as Heikki. I'm pretty sure that Hamilton could handle a team-mate who was a few notches better than Heikki, without having points taken away from him by that team-mate. Hamilton is a pretty good driver, don't you know ;)
 

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sunama said:
snip
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Why in flying ****-land would Barrichello go to McLaren to play second fiddle to The Messiah™? He spent that long in a Ferrari team firmly in the number 2 seat, why would he want to end his career in that same position of having a great car but no chance to go for a title?

sunama said:
I'm pretty sure that Hamilton could handle a team-mate who was a few notches better than Heikki
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Oh, I'm sure Hamilton could handle it fine. But could McLaren, if the other driver started getting a bit narked off?
 

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JRS said:
Why in flying ****-land would Barrichello go to McLaren to play second fiddle to The Messiah™? He spent that long in a Ferrari team firmly in the number 2 seat, why would he want to end his career in that same position of having a great car but no chance to go for a title?
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Because right now, Barrichello looks to be unemployed. If he moves to McLaren, he would have a chance of victory (as long Hamilton isnt being upstaged).

JRS said:
Oh, I'm sure Hamilton could handle it fine. But could McLaren, if the other driver started getting a bit narked off?
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The other driver wouldnt get hacked off, unless he is of a similar calibre to Hamilton and is being reigned in and asked to back off. There are numerous drivers who simply wouldnt be able to compete against Hamilton and wouldnt need to be told to go slow(er).

Hamilton has it in him to have a better team-mate and still be able to play the outright No.1 role. Heikki is just too slow and winning the constructors title (the job of the No.2 driver, providing the No.1 driver keeps his end of the deal) could be tough with him in the 2nd McLaren. The driver combination of Massa and Kimi is just too strong for 1 driver (Hamilton) to beat on his own.

The other job of the No.2 is to assist his team-leader in the title run-in if the points totals are close. However, Heikki simply doesnt have the speed to mix it with the 2 Ferraris. He really is that bad.
 

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Just heard a rumour that Jenson Button has been offered a drive at Toro Rosso but it is conditional on his changing his name to Sebastian Button as it fits in better with the team's image :D
 

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Was reading that last night, he is losing the plot in my opinion. He did a lot for F1 dont get me wrong, but is starting to appear a little "flakey".
 

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NeilMick said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72994

I hate this little scrotum of a man. :mad:
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I'm struggling to see anything particularly objectionable in that article.

1) He wants teams to commit to the sport - great.
2) If they make that commitment, then he wouldn't mind seeing the cost-cutting nonsense aborted - great.
3) He reckons introducing KERS is a mistake since it'll have ****-all relevance to the Real World™ - he could well be right there.

I know this forum seems to have a fixation regarding Bernie actually being Satan, so I guess I'm not going to get an answer here that makes much sense. But where d'you take issue with what he said in that interview?
 

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Because in the full interview i read last night he also speaks of taking legal action against any team which puilled out. That's really going to get them all to commit isn't it!
 
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