F1 2009 Season discussion/development thread

[Wicksta]

thats a different picture?

Its a different picture of the same car, demonstrating the 'perfect' reflection on the shark fin, with the reversed tyre lining up perfectly with the actual tyre on the rear left. The shark fin is exactly perpendicular to the horizontal axis of the car which is why you are seeing a 'transparent' fin in photos. That particular photo you can clearly see the mirrored text on the tyre so I had hoped it would help you to see it's a reflection.

Anyway I'm fed up of talking about it now, if you really can't see (or understand why) it's not transparent then I give up.

 

[Skeeter]

If the wings has the same properties, but were the same width as last year they would look alright.

But with the massive wide front end and stupid tall rear... it just looks stoopid

 

[sunama]

Well, the teams have done some testing, albeit in super wet conditions.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7841676.stm

Most F1 people have stated that the test (which was very very important), was a complete waste of time.

Apparently Renault are the only team who will be running with KERS, for sure. My suspicion is that Ferrari and McLaren will run it also, otherwise, Renault/Alonso could gain an advantage. The lesser teams who might not be going for the win, might decide to run without it.

I was looking forward to the test, just to see where everyone shakes out, but unfortunately, we shall have to wait a little longer to find out just who will start the season as top dog.

 

[pingwing]

Is it me or does this picture look hilarious.

I saw that one last week! The guy in the car looks really badly photoshopped in

I love the high nose on this car too! its really dramatic and shows how low the new wings are (just wished the rest of it looked like new new williams)

 

[Dup]

Apparently Renault are the only team who will be running with KERS, for sure. My suspicion is that Ferrari and McLaren will run it also, otherwise, Renault/Alonso could gain an advantage. The lesser teams who might not be going for the win, might decide to run without it.

The teams are only playing at KERS anyway. There are much more advantages to be gained than just a little boost button like the old turbo days but I suppose free extra power all the time is a bit boring in comparison.

It seems the winter development and testing time frame is shorter for some reason, but then again the cars are taking massive new changes compared to previous years. I hope the field gets a chance to close up.

Time's also running out for Honda too. I hope their alleged 2 year development pays off if they get a buy in time.

 

[Sparky]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72965

 

[JRS]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72965

Cue sunama saying that if Webber had any drive or ambition to win a championship he'd move from RBR to McLaren or Ferrari.













.





Oh, wait a minute. Sorry, I've got that wrong haven't I? It's only Button he does that with. Sorry, my bad y'all. Carry on.

 

[Sparky]

Good news me thinks. I'm looking forward to pairing-up of both Webber and Vettel at RBR and if the RB5 with its equalised Renault engine is as good as it sounds like it should be on paper, I reckon RBR will get a much deserved win this year.

You get a bonus if that happens?

£1k for the 1st win

 

[sunama]

Cue sunama saying that if Webber had any drive or ambition to win a championship he'd move from RBR to McLaren or Ferrari.

Oh, wait a minute. Sorry, I've got that wrong haven't I? It's only Button he does that with. Sorry, my bad y'all. Carry on.

Tut tut JRS.

Webber certainly has drive and wants to do the best possible job he can. That is evident in the way he lives his life and also his performances throughout the last few years.

In fact, from what I know he left Williams as he felt he wasnt getting the right support and didnt feel that Williams were the right team to take him forward. This is what an ambitious driver does. What he doesnt do is stick it out relentlessly with a team going nowhere (ie. Honda).

The problem that Webber has is he just isnt in the same league as Hamilton (if he moved there, he would be hammered by the World Champ) or even Vettel, so at Red Bull, I think he has reached his correct level/team. Undoubtedly, Red Bull will be expecting Vettel to bring home the majority of points.

I feel that Ferrari could really only improve on their driver line-up if they added Alonso and/or Hamilton. The arrival of anyone else would either be a side ways move or a step back, given that the drivers they currently have aren't bad (though the jury is out on Kimi, after last year).

Button had the drive.
He had the will to win.
I still believe he has the natural talent.
But now, I think he is happy to take home the big money and finish at the back of the grid. I still feel that if he had pushed hard for a move to McLaren after Alonso's departure, he would've had a chance to drive alongside Hamilton and go for race wins (if he was capable). The problem with that would've been that his career as a front-runner, would've been over by the end of the season, if he got heavily outscored by Hamilton, hence, he would've needed absolute belief in his own ability to pursue a move to McLaren...which I don't believe he had, after the 2007 season.

 

[sunama]

Good news me thinks. I'm looking forward to pairing-up of both Webber and Vettel at RBR and if the RB5 with its equalised Renault engine is as good as it sounds like it should be on paper, I reckon RBR will get a much deserved win this year.

My personal belief is that Red Bull's horrendously late release of their car is going to seriously hinder their chances to compete at the front of the pack. To effectively give the other leading teams, a month's head start is crazy.

For Red Bull's sake, I hope I am completely wrong.

 

[Sparky]

My personal belief is that Red Bull's horrendously late release of their car is going to seriously hinder their chances to compete at the front of the pack. To effectively give the other leading teams, a month's head start is crazy.

For Red Bull's sake, I hope I am completely wrong.

We will see come Race 1. Look at Ferrari for example, nice early release and illegal engine cover/rear 1/4 panels. Our car will be released and ready to race, not released to satisfy the media.

 

[Type_R]

We will see come Race 1. Look at Ferrari for example, nice early release and illegal engine cover/rear 1/4 panels. Our car will be released and ready to race, not released to satisfy the media.

Yeah but at least the Ferrari is getting real testing on track, of all the new components and slick tyres - which surely above all else is the data needed with the changes taking place.

 

[sunama]

The rain has been pretty bad at Portugal (I think thats where the test was). However, Ferrari decided to test at Italy on their private track, so would've got some decent miles in. I believe that Thursday was the only day the track was dry.

I feel that although the teams didnt benefit fully (due to wet track), they benefitted a lot more than Red Bull who havent yet unveiled their car.

Another aspect is that the drivers have to "learn" to drive the new car and especially get the most out of the KERS unit. While Hamilton has already had a go, the likes of Vettel has not. This cannot be a good thing for Red Bull.

I just dont think that Red Bull's strategy of hoping other teams gain minimal benefit from the tests (planned before Red Bull's launch), is a good one.

Normally there is a pattern (after a major rule change) in that the teams who have the most extensive pre-season testing programs, tend to do the best. In 1994, MS and Bennetton made a massive pre-season effort. MS went onto win the first 4 GPs of the year.

 

[Sparky]

What makes you think that is our strategy?

 

[sunama]

Ok Ok, you got me.

 

[Sone]

did they not cheat in 1994 though!

 

[sunama]

There were many accusations until finally in Belgium, after winning, MS/Bennetton were stripped of the victory and then banned for the subsequent 3 races.

Apparently car was running a little too low to the ground and "the plank" which is under the car was too thin, allowing the car to run lower and gain an advantage using ground effect.

What stands is the fact that the most tested car (pre-season) started the season with 4 race wins. What also helped was that they had MS piloting the car, but he couldnt have done what he did in any other car. After all the testing, the Bennetton became the most drivable car out there.

In general, more testing = an improved, faster car.

I wouldnt ask CSI to reveal Red Bull's strategy, but unless they have a developed a top secret simulator that works just as well as driving on a real track, I honestly cant see how they can recover from having a car that is essentially 1 month newer than the cars that have already been unveiled and begun the evolutionary development process that all cars must go through.

 

[Alibaba99]

What stands is the fact that the most tested car (pre-season) started the season with 4 race wins. What also helped was that they had MS piloting the car, but he couldnt have done what he did in any other car. After all the testing, the Bennetton became the most drivable car out there.

I suppose running illegal driver aids probably does make it an easier vehicle to drive.

 

[JRS]

I suppose running illegal driver aids probably does make it an easier vehicle to drive.

Shall we ask Jos Verstappen about that one?

"I must have a little the same driving style as Johnny because he said basically the same things about that car that I did and seems to have had the same feelings. It was a very difficult car. You could not feel the limit and so you were pushing and pushing and then suddenly it would have oversteer. Normally when you get oversteer you can control it but the Benetton would go very suddenly and so you ended up having a spin. I had big problems with that car."

- pulled from the Wiki page about the Benetton B194

Yeah....sounds really easy to drive And according to Johnny Herbert, the B195 that followed it wasn't much easier to live with.

 

[sunama]

The Bennetton was certainly easy for MS to drive. Though we must remember the car was built for him and only him. He put many miles on it in testing and mastered the car. He developed the car and his driving style and the car developed together.

Unfortunately, JJ Lehto, Jos Verstappen, Johnny Herbert, etc were unable to adapt or get anywhere near the performance that MS was able to extract from the machine.

If you look at Senna in 1994. The Williams was clearly a more difficult car to drive, but potentially - once setup correctly and mastered - IMO it was a faster car. Senna only drove it for 3 races and had 3 poles - he went off, while leading in Brazil and San Marino. As the season progressed the Williams car got steadily quicker (or should I say easier to drive) and D.Hill was also improving as a driver, to the point where in Australia, MS was barely able to stay ahead of Hill's Williams. This led to MS going off the track, as he was struggling to stay ahead of the pursuing Hill. When MS knew his race was done, he veered back onto the track, into Hill's Williams damaging its suspension. Both drivers failed to finish and MS won the title by 1 point.

IMO, in 1994, MS/Bennetton were the better package and rightfully won the title - despite the FIA's attempts to stop him. In 1995 of course, MS/Bennetton did it the right way and blew everyone out of the water. It wasnt a Championship as much as it was a demonstration: MS 102pts, Hill 69pts.

I wasnt a big fan of Senna, by my God, he had an insatiable desire to win at any cost. He also had an unshakable belief in his own ability. Hamilton is very similar, but only time will tell if he will become a great.