sickening police violence

RDM · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:40

Von Smallhausen said:
But mud sticks to the police uniform more than any other profession in the public eye.

Apart from politicians of course.

EDIT: And Catholic Priests!

Von Smallhausen · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:50

I'm not so sure ......

Can you see Paul Stephenson attracting as much of a crowd as the Pope ?

And I don't mean to turn up and throw bricks at.

newbiejim · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:51

RDM said:
Feel free to quote me anywhere I have "tainted" Mr Tomlinson.

I just don't really agree with trial by media regardless of who the "accused" is.

RDM said:

It also doesn't fit with his behaviour on the video shown, unless after being thrown to the floor twice and batoned you think the sensible thing is to meander around in front of the police some more?

Click to expand...

You tainted Mr Tomlinson by implicitly questioning his actions when the biggest offence is clearly shown in the video and supported by lots of witness accounts. Constantly questioning Mr Tomlinsons actions which dont need to be justified, implicitly taint his case. You most certainly do not come accross as impartial

Chimerical · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:53

Von Smallhausen said:
Like labelling the police force as an out of control gang of thugs with little accountability ........

This happens all the time. It happened to all social workers after the Baby P incident came to light.

It's nothing new.

RDM · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:54

newbiejim said:
You tainted Mr Tomlinson by implicitly questioning his actions when the biggest offence is clearly shown in the video and supported by lots of witness accounts. Constantly questioning Mr Tomlinsons actions which dont need to be justified, implicitly taint his case. You most certainly do not come accross as impartial

Ah, so asking why someone does something is tainting them is it? Wanting more information is tainting someone? I suppose I don't come across as impartial to you because I am not asking for the officer to be hung before even getting a trial...

Von Smallhausen · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:55

Chimerical said:
This happens all the time. It happened to all social workers after the Baby P incident came to light.

It's nothing new.

But still generalisation, not to mention untrue.

On that note, it's beer 'o clock.

newbiejim · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:57

dmpoole said:
1 - No it is you that knows better than the medical experts. They haven't decided yet but you have.

2 - I don't think it is minutiae of little consequence because falling straight onto your head without cushioning would be a brutal fall that most would have a serious injury from.
Mr Tomlinson fell onto his hands/arms and cushioned the fall.
He also didn't show signs of discomfort while on the floor such as holding his head or his tummy.

WRONG, I do not know better than medical experts and have never claimed such, unlike you, they have opined that this fall could cause the injuries found, FACT, watch the news.

Your observations in point number 2 are just too ridiculously simplistic for you to draw any conclusions from.

newbiejim · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:59

RDM said:
Ah, so asking why someone does something is tainting them is it? Wanting more information is tainting someone? I suppose I don't come across as impartial to you because I am not asking for the officer to be hung before even getting a trial...

nope, its the hugely one sided slant of your contributions throughout the thread which are clearly unfair to Mr Tomlinsons case.

Aliboy · 17 Apr 2009 at 21:00

Von Smallhausen said:
On that note, it's beer 'o clock.

Guess who?????

Al (Kinda giving the game away)

newbiejim · 17 Apr 2009 at 21:03

Von Smallhausen said:
It raises a question of integrity about the officer concerned and a few others who were with him, not the police force as a whole and that is the point I am trying to make.

But mud sticks to the police uniform more than any other profession in the public eye.

Well if its any consolation I will certainly not make sweeping generalisations about the police

, that would be crazy, BUT I would like to feel that there is an organisational culture within the police that frowns upon this type of incident etc. I fear there is not.

RDM · 17 Apr 2009 at 21:05

newbiejim said:
nope, its the hugely one sided slant of your contributions throughout the thread which are clearly unfair to Mr Tomlinsons case.

That is because they were in response to your completely one sided police hating stance. The gist of what I have been saying is that someone is innocent until proven guilty and we need to know all of what happened before making a judgement.

newbiejim · 17 Apr 2009 at 21:11

RDM said:
That is because they were in response to your completely one sided police hating stance. The gist of what I have been saying is that someone is innocent until proven guilty and we need to know all of what happened before making a judgement.

I am in no way police hating at all and resent that accusation tbh. Or are you perhaps convicting me without a fair hearing eh?

You didnt approach Mr Tomlinson's side of things in your 'innocent until proven guilty' claim, no, you questioned HIS behaviour and ignored the police's actions, the absence of equally as harsh criticism of the police's actions doesnt support your holier than thou proclamations.

RDM · 17 Apr 2009 at 21:16

newbiejim said:
I am in no way police hating at all and resent that accusation tbh.

Resent away, as you as so free with your accusations I thought I would try the same. So liberating...

newbiejim said:
Or are you perhaps convicting me without a fair hearing eh?

Not at all, as far as I am aware hating the police isn't a convictable offence...

newbiejim said:
You didnt approach Mr Tomlinson's side of things in your 'innocent until proven guilty' claim, no, you questioned HIS behaviour and ignored the police's actions, the absence of equally as harsh criticism of the police's actions doesnt support your holier than thou proclamations.

The police officers behaviour is pretty self evident, there is even some video of it, you may have seen it. What I would like to know is what lead up to that behaviour. You on the other hand don't seem to care and would rather see police blood.

GSDog · 17 Apr 2009 at 21:17

Von Smallhausen said:
Fair enough.

It is quite ironic how the death of Pc Gary Toms of the Metropolitan Police barely scratched the media surface today.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8005107.stm

I noticed that too. I can't even find the story on the Daily Mail website but they do have a story about police officers confiscating a photograph to prevent terrorism as one of their main stories. :rolleyes:

You will only find anti-police stories on the news and in the papers, no wonder so many people hate the police.

newbiejim · 17 Apr 2009 at 21:29

RDM said:
Resent away, as you as so free with your accusations I thought I would try the same. So liberating...

Puerile

RDM said:
Not at all, as far as I am aware hating the police isn't a convictable offence...

Fair if juvenile point.

RDM said:
The police officers behaviour is pretty self evident, there is even some video of it, you may have seen it. What I would like to know is what lead up to that behaviour. You on the other hand don't seem to care and would rather see police blood.

Yes but you show interest in what happened before clearly hoping something comes to light that in some way mitigates the Police's behaviour.

Anyways, our petty spat aside

,the facts are you jumped on the anti tomlinson bandwagon unfairly.

JBuk · 17 Apr 2009 at 21:38

Von Smallhausen said:
On that note, it's beer 'o clock.

More police lies :rolleyes:

It was beer o'clock hours ago

RDM · 17 Apr 2009 at 21:41

newbiejim said:
Puerile

Glad you finally noticed...oh hang on you are talking about me!

newbiejim said:
Fair if juvenile point.

You may have noticed I may not be taking this quite so seriously as you by now...

newbiejim said:
Yes but you show interest in what happened before clearly hoping something comes to light that in some way mitigates the Police's behaviour.

Why are not interested in what happened before?

newbiejim said:
Anyways, our petty spat aside ,the facts are you jumped on the anti tomlinson bandwagon unfairly.

As opposed to the anti police bandwagon?

newbiejim · 17 Apr 2009 at 21:54

RDM said:
You may have noticed I may not be taking this quite so seriously as you by now...

hmmmmm

RDM said:
Why are not interested in what happened before?

Yes of course, didnt explicitly say otherwise.

RDM said:
As opposed to the anti police bandwagon?

BUT, it turns out the police have a case to answer, you may have noticed

Anyways, i`m off for a whisky and a beer.

singist · 17 Apr 2009 at 22:03

Von Smallhausen said:
It raises a question of integrity about the officer concerned and a few others who were with him, not the police force as a whole and that is the point I am trying to make.

But mud sticks to the police uniform more than any other profession in the public eye.

You are abso ******* lutely right! so why are you and several others defending these ****s? I'll happily wait for a coroners verdict etc and any charges regarding the death but the actions of the police in the two cases that we're discussing was wrong in many, many people's opinion.

I want to believe in our police force and I want to think that they are on our (joe public) side but this sort of thing kills a lot of good will and respect.

Funnily enough, I had a long conversation with a couple of youngish officers yesterday, they seemed like totally decent guys who were doing a hard job and we spoke/joked for about 1/2 an hour about various things (mainly dogs but not this poo) .... I left them thinking why would someone like that turn into an automaton when put into another situation?

As you say **** sticks and you and the other decent officers have to work twice as hard now to regain respect ....... unfotunately, I also think that there is much more distancing to do rather than closing ranks.

I am truly sorry about the officer who died in performance of his duty and my condolences go to his family......

If you are going after the bad guys, we're/I'm right behind you ..... if you are gonna have a serious go at relatively innocent people for protesting, you'd better think again next time you want a chat and a cuppa.

Sankari · 17 Apr 2009 at 22:41

Abdominal haemorrhage, eh? That's going to take a bit of explaining.