Light Bulb Ban Fail

[[DOD]Asprilla]

Confusing post.

I don't want to do research on something as mundane a light bulbs, and nore do I want to make a special trip to a lighting specialist to buy them.

I want bulbs that provide an adequate level of light, fit in my current lamps and shades without poking out the top / bottom and reach their maximum light level within one second of me flicking the switch.

I don't want to have to buy additional lamps and fittings to make up the light level either.

 

[dr4g0nf1y]

then be ignorant and expect everything to be the same

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

then be ignorant and expect everything to be the same

I don't expect it to be the same, but I do expect at least some consumer care and information to be given that allows purchases to identify substandard products.

For example, as you mentioned wattage is a fairly useless measurement and lumens should be used instead, but the manufacturers lie about the equivalency of their energy saving bulbs. When they state the bulb you are buying provides the same light as a 100w filament bulb, but ti's simply not true. Why, as a consumer, should I put up with that?

Same goes for the start up time.

There should be minimum standards that needs to be adhered to.

 

[dr4g0nf1y]

I don't expect it to be the same, but I do expect at least some consumer care and information to be given that allows purchases to identify substandard products.

I've just given the information needed and you spat it back in my face. Then you said the knowledge I hold is mundane, but being a lighting specialist it's my job to be up to date with knowledge.

 

[NeilF]

Indeed it is, we had the same issue in our house until they found it was my 4x 50w GU10s

They do (dimmable) enery saving versions now... http://www.megamanenergysavers.com/acatalog/3000_KELVIN_GU10.html

Four would set you back the best part of £50

 

[v0n]

Wattage is a fairly useless measurement and lumens should be used instead, but the manufacturers lie about the equivalency of their energy saving bulbs. When they state the bulb you are buying provides the same light as a 100w filament bulb, but ti's simply not true. Why, as a consumer, should I put up with that?

Same goes for the start up time.

There should be minimum standards that needs to be adhered to.

Can we force MPs to read this man's post, at least few times a day for the next two weeks? Any hackers around? Anyone?

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

I've just given the information needed and you spat it back in my face. Then you said the knowledge I hold is mundane, but being a lighting specialist it's my job to be up to date with knowledge.

I'm not wanting to denegrate you or your job, but you've got to admit that most purchases will come from large stores, and it's in these places that the information is lacking.

I'm sure you do a great job, but I (and I would suggest over 90% of the UK population) buy bulbs based the fact they are conveniently available at our local supermarkets. I could buy a product that fulfilled my needs perfectly before the advent of energy saving bulbs, but now it appears that I either need a specialist to help me or I need to do research on the internet. Am I the only one who thinks this is wrong?

 

[benneh]

My main peeve is the light temperature of the energy saving bulbs. They're drastically grey or yellow or just bloody horrible. Granted 6400k is nice for a little while, but it's too I dunno, it's either not quite warm enough or far too orange.

I'll be sticking with old school bulbs around the home .

 

[DominicStar]

I wonder how long it will be before the price shoots up?

It will probably happen about the time that there is only one manufacturer in the UK and therefore nobody to undercut them.

 

[dr4g0nf1y]

No I do agree with you and it's one thing I do to help people understand so they can enjoy the benefits of energy saying light bulbs without having them to the research themselves.

but one of my points is if you go into tesco the staff there don't have the product knowledge because they just sell them and not use them.

when we get a new bulb at work we'll open it up and use it straight away. This is a great benefit to people who visit us because unlike them we don't have to pay £25 to test an LED GU10 light bulb for instance.

Just yesterday I had a gentleman who was willing to spend £45 to 2 GU10 bulbs (£20/£25). I don't him the differences in the 2 bulbs and showed him both working. In the end he decided to buy just the one.

you can't get that service from a supermarket.

It's the same as with any new computer component. You don't see it's new and buy it because of the price, you have to read reviews to know it's the product for you.

The problems around this issue is down to the European Union and the individual manufactures of the bulbs.

there is no set standard at the moment but was the incandescent bulbs have been removed from sale they will start to imply these which is absolutely stupid.

In the future they are planing that 1 watt is equivalent to 10 lumen but when shades can only take up to a certain heat this has had it.

fluorescent tubes, halogen and leds are all being used and all work differently with outputs, size and heat being different.

It's going to be an impossible task

 

[Sash]

LEDs are the future.

 

[Greebo]

LEDs are the future.

This. With LED's offering 66% reduction over current energy saving bulbs, instant on, these are the way forward.

Shame the maximum you can buy at the moment is only the equivalent of 40W in brightness.

 

[Sash]

This. With LED's offering 66% reduction over current energy saving bulbs, instant on, these are the way forward.

Shame the maximum you can buy at the moment is only the equivalent of 40W in brightness.

Luckily you can get torches with the power of a million candles!! (Rhod Gilbert link)

 

[Dr Who]

LEDs are indeed the way forward, they offer a nicer light than flourescents.

I even have energy saving flourescents in my spotlight fittings at home, I like the energy savings for the most part, however, I do struggle with their initial light output when turning them on just to find something quickly at night. I have to wait for them to get brighter, as a result, leaving the light on for longer, false economy to a degree.

For people who have triple fittings that take say 3 40w candle style bulbs, the impact is zero, yet those fittings use 120w of power and people really wont want 3 ugly energy savers on show. I am guessing this will improve as more and more bulbs get sold and shapes improve. (I have small round bulbs in my bedside lights that are energy saving so there is hope)

 

[eggyoke]

Are these new bulbs the ones that look like pipes that bend in a rectangle shape?

I've had one of these in my room for over 2 years and its been great, never really had a problem.

 

[dr4g0nf1y]

LEDs are truly brilliant but are silly at the moment in terms of price.

£20 for a 3w to 35w that says will last for over 40 years (sure it would be around 50) and it two years the bulb would have broke even.

the downside is the more older customer we get aren't interested because they'd say the bulb would out live them and these people appear to be in their late 40's

it's one sided, you either have the person who's all for the Energy Saving bulb and will accept the price of the bulb and receive a cleaner form of light and also save money or you have the other (mostly of different generation) who will stand up for what they believe in is better and spend £10 for a 100w bulb that'll last close to a year and pay more on the electricity to use it.

In my bedroom atm I'm using a BC 2w - 10w led, retails around £9.95, it does what I want it to do.

I've personally gone over the last 5 years from a 100w incandescent - 20w/100w florescent - 18w/100w florescent - 8w/40w florescent - 2w/10w LED

 

[Dr Who]

That's wrong for a start. It sounds like you're comparing a standard genie energy saving bulb to an incandescent bulb.

it's not down to the wattage.

wattage is a measurement of electricity use not light output. If you want to compare the output in light then you need to look at the lumen measurement.

An incandescent 60 watt bulb has around 700 lumen whereas energy saying genie bulbs have 600 lumen which will be the set standard in the future to measure off lumen as so many people get confused now.

many energy saying bulbs exist, if you want a bulb to start straight away then you have the tornado class single tube spiral bulbs or the eco classic 30 bulbs that use G9 halogen bulbs inside.

If you want maximum light out put there are bulbs which will be around 150 watt using 105 watts.

There are GU10 energy saving bulbs. they use 35 watt to produce 50 watt, just have to ask for them.

They are out there. Supermarkets aren't lighting specialists and to be honest neither are homebase and b&q but they do offer a better selection as do other shops.

if you want good bulbs don't get them from supermarkets.

I understand the difference between wattage and light output, however, many flourescent bulbs take a while to warm up and produce their rated lumens, and "wattage equivalance" they also produce a different light which is not always suited to certain tasks..

50hz flourescent vs 60hz monitor is one example, as incandescant lamps dont suffer this frequency flickering.

There is still a place for an incandescant, maybe not 100w ofc in the home despite people having 120w+ triple light fittings.


You are correct that a supermarket will have zero knowledge of the different types and applications, like everything, you cannot go to the cheapest outlet if you need specialist advice. Once you get there, you may then end up walking out with a 100w Incandescant

 

[dr4g0nf1y]

I understand the difference between wattage and light output, however, many flourescent bulbs take a while to warm up and produce their rated lumens.

For new genie bulbs it's about 3 seconds, there used to be a 30 second rule.

because you have 3 or 4 loops on these genie bulbs, that's what delays them to get to there potential. If you tried the tornado bulbs which holds a single spiral tube then these are instant (after an initial few times of use).

 

[Greebo]

In my bedroom atm I'm using a BC 2w - 10w led, retails around £9.95, it does what I want it to do.

I've personally gone over the last 5 years from a 100w incandescent - 20w/100w florescent - 18w/100w florescent - 8w/40w florescent - 2w/10w LED

I thought 1W led = 10W incandescent????

 

[Dr Who]

For new genie bulbs it's about 3 seconds, there used to be a 30 second rule.

because you have 3 or 4 loops on these genie bulbs, that's what delays them to get to there potential. If you tried the tornado bulbs which holds a single spiral tube then these are instant (after an initial few times of use).

I have some that are initially bright but they take about a second to turn on, is it those of which you speak?

I have no idea which ones I have, most were installed by the engineer that fitted all the lights to the specs requested. Some are energy saving, some are 12v spot.