Driving in snow

No different because ABS doesn't know if you're slowing down or not, it just releases the brake on the (locked) wheel then reapplies it.

ABS is not the same as Cadence braking, if that's what you are talking about?

A very good post on PH explaining what a modern ABS system actually does. Certainly interesting reading and opened my eyes as I originally thought it just pulsed the brakes when the wheels locked.

The common misconception is that the ABS system 'pulses' the brakes in the same way as a driver does when cadence braking. The reality is that modern systems (from Continental, Bosch and TRW) can modulate the brake pressure to each brake caliper individually, to maximise the available grip on each wheel. This is achieved by a set of valves that sit between the master cylinder and each of the 4 brake pipes, which are controlled by solenoids. The valves can be controlled in such a way that brake pressure to the caliper can be modulated and held at set pressures, not just on-off-on-off which seems to be the common misconception.

In an emergency braking event, the ABS system senses that such a scenario might be about to occur due to the sudden sharp release of the accelerator pedal. The system then pre-charges the brake system to minimise the pressure-lag of the brake circuit. When the driver then jumps on the brakes, the system monitors brake pressure up to a point where it starts to cap the rear axle pressure to ensure the rear axle does not lock up before the front (and therefore cause loss of control).

The system monitors each wheel speed carefully, and allows the wheels to slip relative to the road by around 10-12%. Maximum grip is attained at around these slip values, but it depends on the tyre and road conditions. The front wheels will start to lock-up (normally 1 before the other due to road surface conditions, steering wheel angle etc), momentarily exceeding the allowed slip, so the system reduces the brake pressure on that wheel (and can even increase engine torque to un-lock a locked wheel which can be necessary in some cases, for example on 4wd cars).

Once the front wheels are at their target slip level (10-12% to get maximum grip) the rear axle brake pressures are increased up to a point that the rear wheels meet their slip target. This ensures the rear wheels contribute their maximum to the deceleration, although depending on the car type, this can be as low as 15% due to the weight transfer to the front axle, but a normal value is around 35%. Non ABS cars have to cap the rear axle pressure much below their optimum slip %age to ensure the vehicle doesn't spin - this limits overall deceleration potential by quite a lot....

The system monitors wheels speed and target wheel slip on all 4 wheels around 50 times per second. Any road surface change, dip, crest, road friction change, brake friction change, tyre temp change due to heat etc will mean the brake force required to attain maximum grip needs to eb adjusted, and therefore the ABS system compensates by raising or lowering the brake pressure held at that wheel at that moment in time.

A non-ABS car, no matter how good the driver, cannot brake even in a straight line to within any closer than 110% of an ABS car, and it normally takes practice to know what the right pedal pressure should be on that road surface in that car - even on the worlds most theoretically perfect road that has a perfectly even road surface. Throw in real world situations in an emergency braking event and you are looking at 120 - 130% of the stopping distance of an modern-ABS equipped car.

Snow and ice can cause issues for ABS and traction control systems, but one must remember that the system is a 'blind monkey in the boot' and cannot actually see the road surface. Detecting what road surface the car is on by monitoring wheel slip vs brake pressures alone is a difficult job, and that is why it is often better to disable traction control to get out of a sticky situation. A car might lock it's front brakes with 60 bar of pressure on a dry tarmac road. On ice, this can be as low as 3-4 bar. I challenge anyone in a modern servo assisted car to modulate 3-4 bar - there's just no resistance built up yet at that level. If you lock the brakes you can sometimes get extra decel by snow packing, but on ice you'll be skidding at only 90% of the maximum deceleration, and with no steering control. I know i'd rather be using ABS.
 
Stunning how people stand and watch with a camera instead of actually leaving the house and stopping it happening..
 
Well Reading is officiall ******. Took me 2.5hours to do the 6.2miles home.

Over 3 inches has fell in that time and I have just had to abandon the car at the bottom of a hill.

on monday took me 6 hours to get from didcot powerstation to home in reading :/ and neary crashed coming down the hills between blewberry and streatley no control of car at all was just waggle the wheel and hope to miss everything :/
glad the weather is better now

regards
Andy
 
I'm sure you aren't and its not aimed at anyone in particular but people describing car ping pong and the people that are saying stuff like ' OMG my car span 1080 degrees 6 times and then I had to avoid an upside bus while trying to bring the back end in!'. I'm sure its chaos down there but I suspect some slight exaggeration.
not really exageration st peters hill in reading, a fgew cars got stuck so along come 2 big recovery trucks , both slide down the hill and get stuck blocking the road, in turn blocking one of the major routes into reading from the north.
did not see a single gritter until about 10pm on monday night and only saw one gritting the road that leaded to a closed road ?????????????
regards
Andy
 
Stunning how people stand and watch with a camera instead of actually leaving the house and stopping it happening..

I suspect the girl behind the camera just thought they'd slide into a curb, and not get out of the car whilst sliding and let it nearly run over them.
 
Hey,

Does anyone recommend using all season tyres on their car? Something like Vredestein Quatracs. Granted we only get a week or two of snowy/icy weather a year but would these tyres degrade dry performance enough to make it not worth the effort for general driving?
i can't really see the point of them. as it's only a week or two of ice weather, i don't think it's worth running inferior tyres for the 50 other weeks of the year.

have summer tyres for most of the year, and then have some winter tyres or M+S on some steelies for the winter months.
 
Get a bee-hive and put it on your passenger seat when driving in the snow.

Driving in the snow shall appear the comparatively less dangerous of the two!
 
Drove from Wigan down to Portsmouth and back on Tuesday....

Been all around the country as per usual with work, mostly in the NW where there is plenty of snow. FWD drive van with normal road tires so nothing special but a clue about how to drive helps!

No problems, just the morons who have no idea how to drive that are causing issues either going too slowly (10mph on a gritted road for example) or too quickly.

I propose a "snow license" and only people who have one are allowed out on the roads!

Not been out of Wigan but its been bad around here, main roads were bad on Tuesday but soon got cleared, side roads are terrible around here, they are only just melting/slushing from the amount of use, our street still has compacted snow.
 
No different because ABS doesn't know if you're slowing down or not, it just releases the brake on the (locked) wheel then reapplies it.

True, I just had visions of a red flashing light, a bit of smoke for dramatic effect and a voice with a German accent shouting Alarm, Alarm! :p
 
Stunning how people stand and watch with a camera instead of actually leaving the house and stopping it happening..

There was a recovery lorry and a group of people out of shot who warned them, what did you expect the camera person to do that they couldnt?
 
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hahahahahaha, yes that is a main road lol

:p
 
ABS is not the same as Cadence braking, if that's what you are talking about?

A very good post on PH explaining what a modern ABS system actually does. Certainly interesting reading and opened my eyes as I originally thought it just pulsed the brakes when the wheels locked.
Interestingly, in November a European regulation was passed mandating the fitment of emergency brake assist systems to new models developed for the European Union, under the guise of pedestrian protection and along with new body panel regulations.
 
LOL in feb we found a snowball in the middle of the road that was quite a bit bigger than that! We tied some rope round it and pulled it around with my mate's defender :D
 
My brakes have been grinding hugely recently, especially coming down hills. Is it purely the weather or something I should be concerned about? I'm thinking it's the ice and ABS but I thought I'd check anyway. Roads are abysmal around here.
 
My brakes have been grinding hugely recently, especially coming down hills. Is it purely the weather or something I should be concerned about? I'm thinking it's the ice and ABS but I thought I'd check anyway. Roads are abysmal around here.

mine were grinding the other day, i put it down to 2 days sitting still, rusted up good, with grit stuck in pads etc. Fine now.
 
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