4p

[DireEmblem]

*Easyrider, your i3 rigs above omitt any form of cooler(required), and also you have gone for more expensive ram in the AMD build, so your comparison is skew-iff.


***Edit Just noticed the AMD above includes retail chips - so no need for extra coolers. That makes said AMD setup £449.94, and Intel rig £533.07

 

[easyrider]

The OP is showing that the Athlon II X4 has decent performance for the price compared to a high end computer.

Really

Even if you are getting 70FPS in a game with a Core i7 based computer and 50FPS in a much cheaper Athlon II based computer the game is still playable.

Even if you are getting 70FPS in a game with a Core i3 based computer and 50FPS in an identicle priced Athlon II based computer the game is running faster on the i3 and yet for the same outlay

The Phenom II X4 is still more expensive and in many cases there is no real advantage it has over a Athlon II X4 in tasks which are not sensitive to L3 cache. Games do seem to run faster on an a Phenom II but still an Athlon II based computer can produce good framerates especially if the Athlon II is overclocked.

But then fopr the same cost you can spank the Athlon II x4 in games with an i3

 

[easyrider]

*Easyrider, your i3 rigs above omitt any form of cooler(required), and also you have gone for more expensive ram in the AMD build, so your comparison is skew-iff.

Oh I'm sorry add a tenner and buy retail as i3 530 is doing 4ghz on the stock cooler

I never specced the AMD rig dufous, Wayne did lol

***Edit Just noticed the AMD above includes retail chips - so no need for extra coolers. That makes said AMD setup £449.94, and Intel rig £533.07

Eh? Just add ten quid onto the intel rig and buy a retail chip instead.

OK?

Good

Now redo the math

 

[.walls]

@ easyrider

You do realise that you're coming off as an obnoxious pillock in this thread, yeah?

 

[DireEmblem]

Even if you are getting 70FPS in a game with a Core i3 based computer and 50FPS in an identicle priced Athlon II based computer the game is running faster on the i3 and yet for the same outlay

But then fopr the same cost you can spank the Athlon II x4 in games with an i3

I would agree with both said comments if it could be proven.

The question raised in this thread is mainly the OP's AMD vs the I7 920.

The comparison in specs - do people really need it?

This is not an AMD vs Intel like you are making it out to be, the same arguement could likely be raised with i3 against i5/i7, it all depends really on use/budget/future upgrade timescale.

 

[coupe69]

Let me ask you a question, out of these two chips which do you think is better from a performance point of view?

1. Intel® Core™ i3
2. Intel® Core™ i7

I can't say I've seen a comparison myself (although I'm sure they are out there) but my gut feeling is its chip #2, it is the big daddy right? . . . is that right or not? . . . have I assumed wrongly that chip number #2 offers superior performance levels in almost every way to chip #1

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to prove here, but this part of your post just comes across as slightly sarcastic and a even a little patronising. You know as well as I do which is the superior performing chip here.

So I have put chip #2 next to the AMD® Athlon™ II X4 620 to demonstrate something . . . it's frighteningly obvious to me and a lot of other people reading this thread however it's passing you by completely . . . and this picture won't help you understand any better but I know some others will chuckle!

Yes I understand that you're comparing a high end Intel with a mid range AMD chip, but again what I don't understand is why you're not comparing like for like cpus We all know that the core i7 is a lot of money for what you get, and it's not exactly "bang for buck" this is why I don't own one

coupe69 . . . I've had a bit of fun with this reply and I hope you take it in the spirit it was meant but I do not see this guy ever bringing "valid points to the table" . . . I'm not saying he doesn't but it just ain't happening in any threads that I'm involved with!

How can you say he never brings any "valid points to the table" in any of the threads that you're involved with, when you have him on ignore, and don't actually read his posts


This is a snippet from your original post:

I would like to think that people will *not* forget two of the basic principles of overclocking . . .

• Bang-For-Buck
• Price/Performance Ratio

I just hope that more people become aware of the huge price premium intel are charging for products that do not empower you as much as you would believe and I hope to see more *enthusiasts* buying into AMD as IMHO they really do understand us better . . .

Intel core i3s (specifically the 530) do not have this huge price premium, I think you'll find that the "price/performance ratio" is pretty good with the new Intel chips.

You'll also find for overclocking the core i3s are fantastic clockers, with 4GHz being hit with apparent ease, and some are getting quite a bit more, whereas it's a bit of a struggle to get to 4GHz with the AMDs.

Now I know I'm coming across as a bit of an Intel fanboy here, but I'm just trying to point out to all your followers that Intel do have something to offer at a reasonable price. They clock really really well, and from the benchmarks and reviews I've seen so far actually seems to perform better than a similar priced Athlon II X4. Of course if you're going to be predominantly using your pc for encoding then the Athlon II X4 would probably be the better choice, but let's face it most people that create "spec me threads" in the general hardware forum are usually after a gaming machine, and this is what the i3s excel at.

That is all

 

[easyrider]

@ easyrider

You do realise that you're coming off as an obnoxious pillock in this thread, yeah?

No,

I'm highlighting the fact that comparing Athlon II x4 and i7 makes for a garbage manipulative thread with contrived and inaccurate representation of INTEL and AMD's technologies.

 

[DireEmblem]

Eh? Just add ten quid onto the intel rig and buy a retail chip instead.

Fair do's if that is the case, I simply added the cost of the coolers you chose to strap onto the AMD rig.

If performancewise it could be proved for said tasks your i3 is better than the AMD, and cost like for like, then yes it would make sense to go with the i3.

I feel you are trying to **** AMD here for no apparent reason. I am not intel myself, and will not concur eitherway, as I ave not seen all the facts I need to come to a decision to agree with either party.

I only agree that the OP has a valid point, which makes an interesting discussion(with the exclusion of idiotic biased comments).

 

[Marine Iguana]

Here's the point -> .






<- And here's me

 

[easyrider]

Fair do's if that is the case, I simply added the cost of the coolers you chose to strap onto the AMD rig.

If performancewise it could be proved for said tasks your i3 is better than the AMD, and cost like for like, then yes it would make sense to go with the i3.

By jove I think hes got it

I feel you are trying to **** AMD here for no apparent reason. .

No I love AMD...Loved my opty's

What I am doing is highlighting that for the same cash you can get better perfromance in games with an i3 system.

The benchies are out there.

 

[PermaBanned]

You want to compare like for like CPUs? Well when thinking about the Athlon II X4 620 think - what if my Q6600 was a bit better?

 

[DireEmblem]

BS

This clocks to 4ghz + and 50 quid more gets you a i5 750 trashing that AMD spec in its path.

I hope you dont mind me quoting your :-

BS

The cheapest MB/CPU/RAM/HS I can see on OCUK using the i5 750 with 4GB DDR3 is ~£320 mark, so doubled makes £640(feel free to prove me wrong)

In which case, would you not expect ~£640 worth of kit to beat £450 worth???

Also, this is just one benchmark I have found from google:-
CPU Benchmark, but it rates the cheaper AMD above your more expensive i3.

I will leave it at that, obv 1 bench mark is not the be all and end all, and I agree that the choice of cpu should come down to budget/task.

I also apologise to the OP if I have in any way assisted in this thread going wayward, and would like to thank them, as it has made me question my choice of upgrade path.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to prove here, but this part of your post just comes across as slightly sarcastic and a even a little patronising. You know as well as I do which is the superior performing chip here.



Yes I understand that you're comparing a high end Intel with a mid range AMD chip, but again what I don't understand is why you're not comparing like for like cpus We all know that the core i7 is a lot of money for what you get, and it's not exactly "bang for buck" this is why I don't own one



How can you say he never brings any "valid points to the table" in any of the threads that you're involved with, when you have him on ignore, and don't actually read his posts


This is a snippet from your original post:



Intel core i3s (specifically the 530) do not have this huge price premium, I think you'll find that the "price/performance ratio" is pretty good with the new Intel chips.

You'll also find for overclocking the core i3s are fantastic clockers, with 4GHz being hit with apparent ease, and some are getting quite a bit more, whereas it's a bit of a struggle to get to 4GHz with the AMDs.

Now I know I'm coming across as a bit of an Intel fanboy here, but I'm just trying to point out to all your followers that Intel do have something to offer at a reasonable price. They clock really really well, and from the benchmarks and reviews I've seen so far actually seems to perform better than a similar priced Athlon II X4. Of course if you're going to be predominantly using your pc for encoding then the Athlon II X4 would probably be the better choice, but let's face it most people that create "spec me threads" in the general hardware forum are usually after a gaming machine, and this is what the i3s excel at.

That is all

You really need to check the cost of the cheaper AMD motherboards.

An example is the MSI 770-C45 which is a very popular low end motherboard for overclocking the cheaper AMD chips:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/motherboards/2009/09/17/msi-770-c45-motherboard-review/1

For around £48 to £55 you get both DDR2 and DDR3 versions and all solid capacitors for the price. The motherboard can be used to unlock many AMD Phenom dual cores and Athlon II quad cores.

This means that you are saving something like £12 to £20 over the cheapest H55 and P55 motherboards which start from around £67 to £70.

On the xtremesystems forums the X2 550BE has unlock rate to a quad core of 94 processors out of 125 processors tested. Out of the remaining 31,2 more unlocked to a dual core.

Check out the thread:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=227004

Most people can also get around 3.7GHZ to 3.9GHZ out of the X2 550BE too.

The X2 550BE at around £72 is around £26 cheaper than the Core i3 530 at £98 on OcUK.

Hence you are looking at a premium of around £30 to £40 which is a lot of money in a low end build.

Basically this is the cost difference between a 9800GT and an HD4870 1GB Vapor X on OcUK.

Even the 100MHZ clocked higher X2 555BE at stock is producing well over 40FPS with an HD5850 1GB at 1920X1200 in most modern games:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-ii-x2-555,2540-8.html

 

[PhoenixUK]

BS

This clocks to 4ghz + and 50 quid more gets you a i5 750 trashing that AMD spec in its path.

BS



BS

Yep 11 quid extra for retail, -12 diff from AMD retail since it doesnt need freezer pro, 5 on ram, and another 40 on CPU since i'll pick the x3 instead. That's 70quid diff and if you didn't have fps meter in game you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. 555BE trashes i3 in games for 30quid less as well.

And if you're on tight budget then I guess u'd have to play ur i3 with integrated GPU huh ?

The main point here still is not the comparison but what's the cheapest that can do the tasks you want it to.



And I bet you're driving a Bugatti Veyron to work just because it can go 150mph more over your volkswagen or w/e since you stated my point as BS??

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

BS

This clocks to 4ghz + and 50 quid more gets you a i5 750 trashing that AMD spec in its path.

BS



BS

Lets be fair here!!

Basically:

1.)You need a cooler to use a Core i3 530.

Buying the retail chip Core i3 530 is the cheapest way to get a cooler.This costs £98:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-311-IN

Hence £18 is added to the cost of the pair of Core i3 530 builds.

2.)The Athlon II and Phenom II can use both low voltage and high voltage DDR3. Hence the AMD build can use the same cheaper RAM as listed in the Core i3 530 build. Hence a saving of £10.

3.)Remove the cost of the aftermarket cooler from the AMD build and you are saving £34.


Basically this puts the total cost of the Core i3 530 system at £517 and the cost of the AMD system at £440.

For gaming I would probably get an X2 550BE which is available for around £72 from OcUK.

Hence an additional saving of £20 over two X4 620 based builds.

Hence the pair of Core i3 530 based builds is around £97 more expensive than a pair of X2 550BE based builds or around £49 per build.

£49 is around the price difference between an HD4650 GDDR2 and a HD4870 1GB Vapor X graphics card on OcUK.

Last time I checked a HD4870 1GB was ahead of an HD4650 GDDR2 in gaming performance.

Also in addition it seems that the X2 550BE has a good chance of unlocking to a quad core too:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=227004

The 760G motherboard in the AMD build has the SB710 southbridge and ACC meaning unlocking is possible.

A Core i3 530 even overclocked to 5GHZ with an HD4650 GDDR2 would be slower than a Phenom II X2 550BE at stock with a HD4870 1GB for relatively modern games like Crysis.

Even sticking with the £10 more expensive X4 620 would mean you could have a GTS250 instead of an HD4650.

The X4 620 and the GTS250 would still be a better choice.

Hence there is no real need to overclock or unlock the X2 550BE or the X4 620 in this instance.

Another important indication of how unimportant having the fastest CPU for gaming is the latest Steam Hardware survey:

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

75% of Steam users seem to only have a single core or dual core CPU and even then around 80% are running at 3GHZ and under.

Last time I checked Steam had 20 million users.

 

[easyrider]

Yep 11 quid extra for retail, -12 diff from AMD retail since it doesnt need freezer pro, 5 on ram, and another 40 on CPU since i'll pick the x3 instead. That's 70quid diff and if you didn't have fps meter in game you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. 555BE trashes i3 in games for 30quid less as well.

Its not a quote for an X3 so you can't pop that in your basket to suit yourself.Hell the thread is not even about the X3 lol

And if you're on tight budget then I guess u'd have to play ur i3 with integrated GPU huh ?

What?

The main point here still is not the comparison but what's the cheapest that can do the tasks you want it to.

Not its not...It comparing similar priced systems from AMD and intel.

You could buy cheaper of course but your PC experience would suffer.

And I bet you're driving a Bugatti Veyron to work just because it can go 150mph more over your volkswagen or w/e since you stated my point as BS??

Eh? I have no idea what these BS car comparisons are?

My F1 analogy has by far been the best due to it being the truth!

 

[easyrider]

Lets be fair here!!

Basically:

1.)You need a cooler to use a Core i3 530.

Buying the retail chip Core i3 530 is the cheapest way to get a cooler.This costs £98:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-311-IN

Hence £18 is added to the cost of the pair of Core i3 530 builds.

2.)The Athlon II and Phenom II can use both low voltage and high voltage DDR3. Hence the AMD build can use the same cheaper RAM as listed in the Core i3 530 build. Hence a saving of £10.

3.)Remove the cost of the aftermarket cooler from the AMD build and you are saving £34.


Basically this puts the total cost of the Core i3 530 system at £517 and the cost of the AMD system at £440.

For gaming I would probably get an X2 550BE which is available for around £72 from OcUK.

Hence an additional saving of £20 over two X4 620 based builds.

There you go again..Popping in a cheaper CPU than Wayne specced to shave money of the build. So desperate to prove a point.

Priceless

Deal with the task in hand and talk about the simlar priced i3 I specced and the 620 wayne specced FFS!

Hence the pair of Core i3 530 based builds is around £97 more expensive than a pair of X2 550BE based builds or around £49 per build.

£49 is around the price difference between an HD4650 GDDR2 and a HD4870 1GB Vapor X graphics card on OcUK.

550 BE builds? Where are they specced in this thread?

Last time I checked a HD4870 1GB was ahead of an HD4650 GDDR2 in gaming performance.

Why do I have to have a HD4650 now all of a sudden? lol

Oh because you have decided to dismiss waynes spec to save some money to prove what?

More BS

Also in addition it seems that the X2 550BE has a good chance of unlocking to a quad core too:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=227004

The 760G motherboard in the AMD build has the SB710 southbridge and ACC meaning unlocking is possible.

A chance...I don't spend my hard earned money on chance i'm afraid

A Core i3 530 even overclocked to 5GHZ with an HD4650 GDDR2 would be slower than a Phenom II X2 550BE at stock with a HD4870 1GB for relatively modern games like Crysis.

Really? Never?

We all know most games are GFX dependant over CPU but you just happen to have a 4870 1 GB in your AMD and I have a 4650 in my i3 build.

What an utterly pointless waste of time you posting this drivel...I can't belive what I am reading here lol

Hence there is no real need to overclock or unlock the X2 550BE in this instance.

Eh?

What instance? The instance of you fabricating a virtual AMD spec with a better GFX card than a i3 spec with a crappy gfx card to prove the AMD is the better rig?

In the word of John Mcenroe " You cannot be serious man"



Eh?

 

[Marine Iguana]

 

[DireEmblem]

easyrider, do you have nothing better to post than non-constructive drivel?

 

[easyrider]

easyrider, do you have nothing better to post than non-constructive drivel?

Yes.

The mere fact you have nothing to say as a responce to my replies..reeks of you having nothing better to say never mind post.

I have based my replies on what is being discussed in this thread.Now people are speccing cheaper systems and GFX against the i3 system costing the same as the original 620 spec to argue the point.

Its hilarious in all honesty.