Only Person with a clutch problem eh ?

[TW]Fox;16028098 said:
Shock as tuning cheap car way beyond spec results in stuff breaking :confused:
Click to expand...

A VXR Vectra is hardly 'cheap'.. it's not BMW/Merc expensive granted, but over £20K sounds 'expensive' to me :confused:

Out of interest, and perhaps it is a good point you are trying to (in your unique way) make, but how many BMW boxes could stand such a percentage increase in Torque and be considered bullet proof? Serious question, does tuning an expensive car automatically give you less grief, my head says no, but that might not be the case..

:)
 
I don't know why I'm reading this thread. It should be quite obvious if you tune things up you'll start breaking bits.

When I tuned my old car I knew the weak link was the differential and drag racing style clutch dumps were going to be out of the question.

Seriously, if you kill a clutch so quickly it's either waaaay too weedy or you've got to have a very close look at the way you're treating it.
 
Demon said:
A VXR Vectra is hardly 'cheap'.. it's not BMW/Merc expensive granted, but over £20K sounds 'expensive' to me :confused:
Click to expand...

Show me another car for the price the Vectra VXR was new that offers 280bhp? Its the whole point, bargain performance!

For the performance on offer not only is it cheap but its probably in with a shout of being the cheapest possible way of obtaining that power.
 
It's all relative and based on context.

20 grand NEW for a 280BHP car is cheap.

40 grand NEW for the same power is not.

The book price is not the end of it, you have to look what you get for your money and work out if that was accomplished on a shoestring or has an inflated price due to quality parts. You don't build a 20grand 280BHP saloon car with a clutch that will take twice as much power as stock. That's just bad business.
 
It doesn't matter if the car is cheap or not to put over a 50% increase in torque through a standard clutch is asking for trouble. If you put 50% more torque through a Gallardo's clutch it wouldn't last long not that it evens lasts long on a standard car does that mean a Gallardo is cheap ?
 
Dangerous Dave said:
It doesn't matter if the car is cheap or not to put over a 50% increase in torque through a standard clutch is asking for trouble. If you put 50% more torque through a Gallardo's clutch it wouldn't last long not that it evens lasts long on a standard car does that mean a Gallardo is cheap ?
Click to expand...

well its not that simple.

Essentially they detuned the engine so the gearbox and clutch could cope. The engine is capable of much much more, but they put it on a front wheel drive chassis and halfted the torque so they could fit a gearbox shared with other models. the F40 gearbox is used throughout the range.

presume the M3 and the like wont have the same gearbox in manual configuration as a 320i ?
 
MrLOL said:
well its not that simple.

Essentially they detuned the engine so the gearbox and clutch could cope. The engine is capable of much much more, but they put it on a front wheel drive chassis and halfted the torque so they could fit a gearbox shared with other models. the F40 gearbox is used throughout the range.

presume the M3 and the like wont have the same gearbox in manual configuration as a 320i ?
Click to expand...

Probaly not however I am sure Fox will know. If you upped the torque by 50% on a M3 it is going to need an uprated clutch aswell it is just common sense.

I can't see why people are surprised when you start to up the power by so much that an item like a standard clutch will suffer. If I remap my Golf I am well aware the clutch will be borderline but generally OK with a stage 1 map with a couple now past 100k but like ST owners some have had clutch slip when a stage 1 map has been loaded this is the risk you take. I would budget an uprated clutch as part of the upgrade and not be suprised if the stock one fails.
 
my s4 is nearly 25% over standard, the driveline is the last of the cars worried

they upgrade to ko4 turbos, 400bhp is the starting point, so 50% over standard. no problems at all.

i suppose some cars are just more tunable the others

Dangerous Dave said:
It doesn't matter if the car is cheap or not to put over a 50% increase in torque through a standard clutch is asking for trouble. If you put 50% more torque through a Gallardo's clutch it wouldn't last long not that it evens lasts long on a standard car does that mean a Gallardo is cheap ?
Click to expand...
 
The E46 M3 has a Getrag Type D gearbox which although shared with some of the BMW range, isnt shared with the 320i which has a Getrag Type B. It's in a few non M cars - E39 540i is one.
 
I'm still offended that someone who comes out with stuff like this and also says M5 are lightweight pedigree once suggested that I was not a petrolhead.

If ignoring basic physics and watching the price trends of many supercars and performance saloons is what makes you a petrolhead... then I'm out! :o

You mess about with the power of your car and cry when stuff breaks? Please.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
I'm still offended that someone who comes out with stuff like this and also says M5 are lightweight pedigree once suggested that I was not a petrolhead.

If ignoring basic physics and watching the price trends of many supercars and performance saloons is what makes you a petrolhead... then I'm out! :o

You mess about with the power of your car and cry when stuff breaks? Please.
Click to expand...

why the need to cross post ? you posted a very similar toys out of the pram statement in another thread. Why the need to repeat it. going senile ?

I never said that the m5 was lightweight.
 
Cross post, thats what happens on a forum.

Its about context. You thought you didnt say the M5 was lightweight but you actually typed it.

I can assure you no toys were thrown out of a pram in the making of this post or any other post made tonight :D And the man with Volvo asks me if I'm going senile.... oh wait that doesn't work in my favour does it :P
 
Why all the debate over this like it is some science, it's not.

Either the stock part is rated for it, or not. Cheapness will be a pretty good indicator of whether it has headroom or not, or in some cases, is a part above and beyond the "cheapness" of the rest of the vehicle.

There is no right or wrong answer. You cannot blindly say all stock parts are useless above the stock vehicles power. Likewise you cannot say all stock parts have headroom for more.

The f20c engine will take a 50% power hike on stock internals and run like that all day. The clutch will probably take 50%, but you should expect it to fail and need replacing. The diff is going to be your next weak link.

But this is proven, and known, by tuners and users. What proof did Courtney have that the stock clutch would take it? What proof do they have on any of the other internals?

Are you not tired of debating such a simple concept? It's rated for it, or not. If it's not, prove it can handle it.
 
Sin_Chase said:
Are you not tired of debating such a simple concept? It's rated for it, or not. If it's not, prove it can handle it.
Click to expand...

how do you proove it though ?

"our development car's hasnt failed in x thousand miles"

but how much further can you go to proove a clutch is capable of handling the torque. You cant proove how many miles you've done in it.
 
Do the tuning work on a stock clutch, the take it through it's paces as you would expect it to be.

If it fails within 1,000 miles that's pretty solid proof of it not being up to the job. Did they even go as far as testing it that little?
 
Sin_Chase said:
Do the tuning work on a stock clutch, the take it through it's paces as you would expect it to be.

If it fails within 1,000 miles that's pretty solid proof of it not being up to the job. Did they even go as far as testing it that little?
Click to expand...

They say so

they have a development car belonging to a moderator (now ex) on the VXR forums that hasnt had any problems, which they say is proof that its only the way the users drive, its not the remap is too much for the clutch.

Personally, i think the map will be fine, so long as you treat the car with kid gloves and avoid using full throttle too much. BUt why remap if your going to start worrying about that sort of thing every time you take it out ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom