Yeah, just take it a bit at a time. Knock off assists one by one so you learn to compensate for things in small steps.
***The Official Forza Motorsport 3 Thread***
- Thread starter Demon
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Yeah, just take it a bit at a time. Knock off assists one by one so you learn to compensate for things in small steps.
No as I will completely ignore him however its clear what hes trying to do.
He just cant let things be and has to do this to try and insult me...
Give me the benifit of this post...
I dont and never have had a "major dislike problem" with FM3. Yes I didnt necessarily like the direction it looked to be going when announced with one button play and SUVs being more important than actual ways to improve the racing. I felt kinda gutted when it got announced. Their attitude towards the game was that it was truely going to be amazing.
Several months later however I spent almost £2000 on hardware to enjoy this game. Im not saying this to show off but to prove the point if indeed I dislike the game that much is that the actions of someone that does?
I will say that FM3 for ME hasnt been a true sequel and well didnt really make much of a step up in its actual racing or the ability of it to set a much higher standard over its predecessor.
For the record I dont agree with all the stuff in the article linked or the guys attitude at times in how he says what he says. Although I find the game fun in many ways I cant turn a blind eye to many of the "little" issues it has. Unfinished cockpits, triple screen bugs, car models with errors transferred over from FM2 still with the errors, the PI system definately is flawed and hasnt been properly gametested. Racing is too easy VS the AI and requires having a car underpowered to get much competition out of it. Yes I havnt played through the full game so maybe their are certain classes that are much more challenging. Still if Im racing AI in the same cars regardless of class I dont want to be leading 1/2 way on the first or end of first lap. True other racing games suffer a similar problem but that doesnt mean this game should as well. Finally its online is actually worse than FM2s which is hard to believe they took that direction.
Those are I believe fair criticisims, do they make me hate the game, not at all but I find it a bit disappointing in certain ways and with regards to what the guy in the article is saying that well maybe rave reviews of 8s or 9s perhaps are a tad generous. Also its not exactly lighting up the Live servers with its online and PI issues. The game will of course gets some great apprasial as its clear the direction FM3 took was to appeal to younger players. I doubt very much many of them assuming 10-16 year olds look at this game as I do and wont really see the issues that I see.
I do however enjoy the game particulary with the Fanatec and triple monitors. Also the DLC they have added (yes I have to buy it 3 times as well) I buy it and every pack so far yet dont moan about it so further lining the pockets of Turn 10 and supporting a game I criticise.
Thats me the aparent Forza hater...
ANY reply from ibert or quoting of this will NOT get a response from me for the sanity of others.
These are my thoughts and well now you know, agree or disagree your all entitled to your own and if YOU think different thats fine with me. I dont however deserve to be name called ridiculed and attacked on this matter on more than one set of forums for over the period of a year by someone who cant understand that.
May I also point out that yes Im excited about GT5, who isnt.
I do believe that will be a better "racing" game for various reasons but maybe not in all ways. Also so people here know I am not a GT fanatic like he likes to paint me as I have never completed a single one of the GT games.
My passion for racing games is out of childhood interests and can be seen in my sig.
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Soldato
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By bringing what was obviously a sore subject and one that neither of you could agree on or let go of over into an other thread.
Clever!
its probably already been explained in here but i cba searching, so can some explain this please.....btw im not here to bash f3, i have f3 and paid a lot of money for a porsche wheel that can play it. i just want to know what you guys think
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No, I brought a discussion about FM3 into the correct thread.
If you have a problem with that then either report it to the mods or be quiet.
Do you know how close things are at the top of the leader boards? I bet most of you could take the quickest car and still be nowhere near the next quickest car. So yes, it could be better but some cars are just better than others, and this minor flaw won't affect most people.
The only flaw as such is that swapping to AWD drivetrain has a negative impact on the PI (Due to the weight), it attributes nothing to having all 4 wheels driven, which some may argue it technically how it should be, because in real life RWD should be quicker for the same weight etc, however in practise in this game AWD has the advantage..
The other 'flaw', which is more just reflecting real life is that some cars in stock trim just don't handle very well, but have the right weight/layout that makes them better upgrade/tuning potential.. the MKII Golf being a very good example.
There is also an element of 'me too' about leaderboard cars, I've been entering a time trial competition that changes track/class every 2 weeks, and the first thing you tend to do is look at what cars are in the top 10, and pick one of those, look for a tune on the storefront that is well known/respected or used by those top 10 and if you are good enough set a top 10 time.. However, as R2's time trial showed, we refused to use the Mazda (time may have been subject to being wiped), so we looked at other cars, and we got the Lexus GT500 to positions 8 and 11 (swamped in a sea of mazda's) and that was with just a quick 'tweak'..
I think we all know that inevitably with so many variables, some cars are just going to be slightly quicker, and therefore people will flood to those once they are known, and the leaderboards can become full of the same car, but what can you do about that?
The only car that i've encountered that gave me a problem with painting was the Audi R8 LMS. I was pretty angry as I had a series of liveries that I had prepared for it, but couldn't paint them due to not being able to paint over the carbon fibre parts.
Not a "bug" exactly, but I wanted to say THANK YOU T10.
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/3563176.aspx
If the paint bugs were game breaking like people say, then there would be loads of complaints. But go visit the official forum there arn't, and you'll find its still very active.
Not a "bug" exactly, but I wanted to say THANK YOU T10.
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/3563176.aspx
If the paint bugs were game breaking like people say, then there would be loads of complaints. But go visit the official forum there arn't, and you'll find its still very active.
True sometimes certain cars have a performance glitch which makes them superior. Thats understandable and they even get patched in past cases.
The point though is with 400-500 cars and various classes and with various tunning options leaderboards should give players a better degree of being able to mix match cars more. It shouldnt still be limited to 1,2 or 3 cars in a class. The game doesnt do this in a way that really makes good usage of the cars available.
Other games are also culprit of this, it isnt an isolated problem so it isnt finger pointing but lets judge each on its own. If a PI system is used to rate a cars performance then factors of that performance should relate to those cars being very closely matched. Of course some cars will handle better others have higher speeds or acceleration so depending on the track used yes this too should be a factor in how quick a certain car is on a certain track. So really in some cases you should see car (A) on a twisty circuit maybe better a similar car (B) of course then on a high speed less technical circuit car (B) may be faster than car (A) even though they have similar scores for PI.
Additionally if the game used sector times then on a given track you could easily identify where different cars make/loose time. For instance can you sacrafice handling a little to increase top end to at least try to maximise a car to another car. Thats what racing is about, not just making a car have a great laptime but having it that it can race with others. If T10 cant do that with stock cars then the community should perhaps try to figure out what cars with varied tunning can actually allow players to create very competitive 8 car grids. The problem is the car class PI system will at times hamper this.
As an example heres a list of the Power Laps from Top Gear.
Notice a wide variation of cars being very close in times. Its not all 4WD, its not always mid engine front engined but varied.
Same Colour = 1 Second Apart
Gumpert Apollo 1.17.1
Ascari A10 1.17.3
Koenigsegg CCX (with Top Gear spoiler) 1.17.6
Noble M600 1.17.7
Pagani Zonda F Roadster 1.17.7
Caterham R500 1.17.9
Bugatti Veyron 1.18.3
Pagani Zonda F 1.18.4
Maserati MC12 1.18.9
Ferrari Enzo 1.19.0
Lamborghini LP670 SV 1.19.0
Ariel Atom 1.19.5
Lamborghini LP560 1.19.5
Ferrari Scuderia 1.19.7
Nissan GT-R 1.19.7
Lamborghini LP640 1.19.8
Porsche Carerra GT 1.19.8
Koenigsegg CCX 1.20.4
Corvette ZR1 1.20.4
Ascari KZ1 1.20.7
Mercedes McLaren SLR 1.20.9
Ferrari 599GTB 1.21.2
Audi R8 V10 1.21.6
Ford GT 1.21.9
Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
Porsche GT3 RS 1.22.3
Corvette Z06 1.22.4
Noble M15 1.22.5
Perhaps only a single track example but how do those cars compare online to each other in FM3 on a similar track?
Is it possible to find a track leaderboard on FM3 that resembles anything like this? Give or take a skill factor of a player to +/- of a few tenths yes but cars within about a second of complete laptime should all compete well together. The point I would say is well if previous FM games had this problem before what did the developers do in FM3 to make it better?
Of course this hampers races and variety particulary when you have 8 car grids. I think its certainly worth considering the game in this particular area could be better. Other games may be as bad but developers should be trying to tacke things like this to improve on past or indeed other games. I wouldnt rank this particular aspect of FM3 as fantastic, not saying others have but well it could be much better particulary if we are to look at FM3 as a lite simulator.
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Caporegime
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Im sorry but this is always going to be the case in all forms of online gaming. Why do all bad company 2 players use the m60, why do most wow players roll paladin, why do most mw2 players use the acr. People will mostly choose the best to give them the best advantage of winning. get rid of one leaderboard car and another one will take it's place. It's been like this with racing games as far back as i can remember and the new GT game will be no different.
One thing I will agree on is that forza has lost what it had in number 2. Custom games in multiplayer mode (unless this has been patched in as i haven't played it for months). That made F2 so much fun as getting 8 friends online at once for some private lobbies isn't always possible meaning your either stuck losing in inferior cars or driving around 3 lap circuits in the same car all the time. The hoppers are great in some respects as it's easy to get into a oval race for example but getting rid of the custom game mode ruined the multiplayer for me.
I also think another contributing factor to a limited selection of cars in the top 100 is the fact tuning is locked. Yes FM is based on reality but there is always glitches that push the physics engine to give you more lateral grip. In Forza 2 you could buy a tune and learn from it and apply it to your other cars in some respects. Now it seems you have to wait for one of the top guys to release stuff as most tuning is kept to themselves.
One thing I will agree on is that forza has lost what it had in number 2. Custom games in multiplayer mode (unless this has been patched in as i haven't played it for months). That made F2 so much fun as getting 8 friends online at once for some private lobbies isn't always possible meaning your either stuck losing in inferior cars or driving around 3 lap circuits in the same car all the time. The hoppers are great in some respects as it's easy to get into a oval race for example but getting rid of the custom game mode ruined the multiplayer for me.
I also think another contributing factor to a limited selection of cars in the top 100 is the fact tuning is locked. Yes FM is based on reality but there is always glitches that push the physics engine to give you more lateral grip. In Forza 2 you could buy a tune and learn from it and apply it to your other cars in some respects. Now it seems you have to wait for one of the top guys to release stuff as most tuning is kept to themselves.
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Well made points adam.
Regards weapons etc in other games that is true, but most action fps games dont have 400+ weapons or many weapons classed in a supposed performance rating. FPS games have come a long way in the last 5-6 years. Would we say racing games have eveloved as well online?
Why have the rating system if its not accurate enough or why restrict players to paramaters that determine that PI/Class of car. Any fellow racer would prefer to have a range of cars they can mix it with, particulary a better handling 4WD Vs a trickier but sometimes faster RWD.
FM3 online is far from achieving a "definative" racing experience and if 4WD domination is evident then it shows somethings not quite right in the physics engine. Points the article linked made.
This isnt bashing for the sake of it, tis what I found to be the case on personal playing and online friends as well.
Regards weapons etc in other games that is true, but most action fps games dont have 400+ weapons or many weapons classed in a supposed performance rating. FPS games have come a long way in the last 5-6 years. Would we say racing games have eveloved as well online?
Why have the rating system if its not accurate enough or why restrict players to paramaters that determine that PI/Class of car. Any fellow racer would prefer to have a range of cars they can mix it with, particulary a better handling 4WD Vs a trickier but sometimes faster RWD.
FM3 online is far from achieving a "definative" racing experience and if 4WD domination is evident then it shows somethings not quite right in the physics engine. Points the article linked made.
This isnt bashing for the sake of it, tis what I found to be the case on personal playing and online friends as well.
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That makes no sense. If I wanted to get the fastest lap on that track, i'd use the Gumpert. As would everyone else. So the leaderboard would be full of gumperts.
But i can see that the PI ratings dont mean all that much, as i went and done a bit of a test using the second group on the top gear lap times list, couldnt use the Zonda F though as it isnt on there.
Veyron - S700 - 52.312
MC12 - S663 - 50.925
Enzo - R3 721 - 51.484
LP670 SV - S648 - 52.205
So although the MC12 isnt the highest PI it won, knowing the MC12 is based on the Enzo if i remember rightly, why is the Enzo classed as an R3 car, when other competitors are in S. It makes no real sense.
Veyron - S700 - 52.312
MC12 - S663 - 50.925
Enzo - R3 721 - 51.484
LP670 SV - S648 - 52.205
So although the MC12 isnt the highest PI it won, knowing the MC12 is based on the Enzo if i remember rightly, why is the Enzo classed as an R3 car, when other competitors are in S. It makes no real sense.
Caporegime
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That makes no sense. If I wanted to get the fastest lap on that track, i'd use the Gumpert. As would everyone else. So the leaderboard would be full of gumperts.
what he is trying to point out is that you can get 6 cars within 1 second of each other. Where as in F3 it's either S5 or 3 seconds adrift (again i have not played in 4 months so this might not be true anymore.)
At least in F2 you had a little variety in what you could race with. R5's and elises going toe to toe with 4wd mugen integra's, 22b's and skylines in A class.
Im not a hater either. My F3 copy was late so I went out and bought it in the highstreet and sent back my second copy to my e-tailer for the sake of 1 day so i guess that tells you how much I was looking forward to fm3.
A lot of cars are made to a balance rather than real world performance. The Lotus Carlton in both FM2 or FM3 never reached it's top speed of 180mph.
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Hadn't been on for a while but I had a blast last night...
Those mixed class races are brilliant! Whether you're blasting past the E-class pack in your Diablo SV or trying to stick to the bumper of the car in front while letting supercars through.
Great stuff.
Those mixed class races are brilliant! Whether you're blasting past the E-class pack in your Diablo SV or trying to stick to the bumper of the car in front while letting supercars through.
Great stuff.
That makes no sense. If I wanted to get the fastest lap on that track, i'd use the Gumpert. As would everyone else. So the leaderboard would be full of gumperts.
Plus, they are also standard cars, not engine/drivetrain/suspension/etc swapped 'builds'..
Comparing 'stock' cars is irrelevant regarding FM3 leaderboards, a stock S5 is beaten by many other cars in that class, only when heavily 'tweaked' does it stand out..
I too think the leaderboard thing is partly inevitble, with obvious 'balance' issues that will always exist no matter what, like all games..
But the only way you can do a fair comparison is to use the same, untuned cars. And like Demon said, everybody will look at the fastest and use that, instead of spending time to try and tune the other cars.
You have to accept that these tuners and testers are spending hours and hours on these cars. A luxury that we don't have in the real world.
I don't know much about BTCC, but do they handicap cars with weight? Why do they do this?
Also, when I last played FM2 online, the people were encouraged not to use these leaderboard cars, so the racing was closer.
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Here we go again, attitude, so anything ibert says I will ignore, already he just dismisses what I say, strikes it off but no surprise as he will always think I have an agenda.
The issue again let me say is not to find the fastest car on a track thats the problem with the game. The issue is to find 6-8 cars that can be matched to be competitive together. Thats what will enchance online races.
By all means look at other more normal cars on the TG track and you could use a few of the Tracks in FM3 like Sebring or Tsukuba for a testbed. Its to the benifit of everyone if as players we find a range of cars that do compete well or even with certain mods/upgrades can compete better together. Put it to the test, create a track discussion thread and follow it through with various people . Im game if you lot are.
TG Times
Heres a good range of cars
Audi R8 1.24.4
TVR Sagaris 1.24.6
Mitsubishi Evo FQ400 1.24.8
TVR Tuscan 1.24.8
Noble M400 1.25.0
Lotus Exige S 1.25.1
BMW M3 Saloon 1.25.3
Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder 1.25.7
Lotus Evora 1.25.7
Lamborghini Gallardo 1.25.8
Do any of these in FM3 remotely compare well together, if not how do you mod them to do so?
We could achieve this by doing a TT and comparing ghosts cars related performance around a track.
The goal is not get an ultimate speed on the TT but get 8 cars to be well matched.
The issue again let me say is not to find the fastest car on a track thats the problem with the game. The issue is to find 6-8 cars that can be matched to be competitive together. Thats what will enchance online races.
By all means look at other more normal cars on the TG track and you could use a few of the Tracks in FM3 like Sebring or Tsukuba for a testbed. Its to the benifit of everyone if as players we find a range of cars that do compete well or even with certain mods/upgrades can compete better together. Put it to the test, create a track discussion thread and follow it through with various people . Im game if you lot are.
TG Times
Heres a good range of cars
Audi R8 1.24.4
TVR Sagaris 1.24.6
Mitsubishi Evo FQ400 1.24.8
TVR Tuscan 1.24.8
Noble M400 1.25.0
Lotus Exige S 1.25.1
BMW M3 Saloon 1.25.3
Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder 1.25.7
Lotus Evora 1.25.7
Lamborghini Gallardo 1.25.8
Do any of these in FM3 remotely compare well together, if not how do you mod them to do so?
We could achieve this by doing a TT and comparing ghosts cars related performance around a track.
The goal is not get an ultimate speed on the TT but get 8 cars to be well matched.
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The only car on there that isnt possible is the Noble, the rest should work so could be worthwhile looking for a track to run them on. With the Evo it will mean modifying it a bit as i think the standard version on there is around 300hp, so would need to get it to 400. The gallardo Spyder can be ignored aswell 