***The Official Forza Motorsport 3 Thread***

[Demon]

For anyone interested..

http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/game/default.htm

(If you get a page error, delete cookies, then reload)

Some more info and the E3 videos!..

 

[Demon]

I have to say, the graphics seem.. err... quite good!

http://forzamotorsport.net/uploaded..._3_Screenshots/FM3_E3_Fiorano_2(2).jpg?n=1051

I know this is photo-mode, but still, it's on par with GT5 in many ways! (Not knocking GT5, I think that will never be beaten on visual fidelity!)..

 

[Demon]

An innovative single-player season mode puts you through a completely personalized racing calendar that includes more than 200 different events, including Circuit, Oval, Drag, Drift and Timed Events

Turn 10 takes realism to new heights, leading the industry with the most advanced physics model, artificial intelligence and damage calculations

All 400-plus cars in the game have been built with more than 10 times the amount of polygons as "Forza Motorsport 2." This includes painstakingly researched cockpits and interiors for every vehicle

Drift and Drag racing sounds good, but why am I not falling for the 'leading the industry' BS.. lets see, but that's a bold claim to make, although 10 times the polygon count as FM2 sounds encouraging.. love to see some proper in-game graphics.. 60fps, 10 times the polys'.. hmm.. not quite feeling it yet!

 

[Demon]

Video of the how video editor can be used.. looks ****** amazing:

HD Vid Link: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-forza/49999

Forget that crap quality capture..

Here's the real deal...

http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/media/videos/default.htm#/video/120/

The 3 videos shown at E3, and in pretty reasonable quality!


and taken from the Pitpass (here:http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/pitpass1.htm)

We released a generous helping of Forza Motorsport 3 screenshots and videos this week. If you haven't seen them yet, go check 'em out in our Media Gallery. There are some things you should know about these screenshots. First of all, at Turn 10, we don't bullshot -- which means everything you see here is real-time taken from in-game gameplay. The E3 batch was taken back in early May, and given how the development process works, the game is improving just about daily, so the bottomline is that these screenshots are from a work-in-progress. Naturally, the game will actually look better by the time it comes out later this fall. The reason why you might have mistaken these screenshots as faked, touched-up, or embellished art is because Forza 3 is an exceedingly gorgeous game.

More PR spin I'm sure, but encouraging non the less...

I now prey GT5 isn't out until March/April 2010.. I don't want them overlapping too much, so I can get FM3 out of my system before it arrives!

 

[Demon]

does/will this game have damage?

Of course, it was in Forza 2, and it's been improved no end, cars can flip, and there looks like plenty of carnage from the launch vids..

 

[Demon]

moan, moan, drip, moan <snip>

It just isn't going to be GT5 is it?

I would like 20 cars on track, 800 cars, weather, day/night racing etc, but only if they didn't have to compromise on other areas.. PD/Turn 10/et al have to have compromises on features etc, and its the mix of features that us as consumers have to pick which suits us..

With regards to FM3 being arcadey and concerning you, I wouldn't worry at all.
They've announced improved physics, including advanced tyre deformation physics, and that is the main thing. Sure, they've added 'assists' to allow a wider audience appeal, but if you are clearly happy that GT5 (as an example only) has the ability to dumb things down for casual users, they I see no real difference.. they've expanded it both ends by the statements made so far..
Lets not forget that despite our own preferences for how FM2 and inevitably GT5P stack up against each other with regards to physics, Inside Sim Racing said FM2 edged GT5P on physics, and if FM3 is as improved as Turn 10 suggested, then I'm sure it's going to be also closely matched to GT5 when it comes out (assuming they up the physics somewhat themselves).

Graphics, I think all will agree that on a lot of levels, GT5 is always going to be the 'best'.. however, lets not do injustice to FM3, it still is a huge step up from FM2, and much much closer to GT5 on many levels and it's only taken 2 years! with the added feature of cars flipping (requiring modelling underneath the cars), user livery, full visual upgrades, and cube maps reflecting other cars, to make a song and dance about it not being 'the best' would be a little harsh.

I have some reservations myself, I would have preferred they had addressed some of the points you raised, but I am in no doubt (and lets see over the coming weeks), that this may well be on balance the 'definitive' car racing game on consoles this generation (See what I did thar )

NFS Shift could be another good title for us hardcore racers.. I have been disappointed with Race Pro, which has the next step up in physics again, but sadly compromised too much on framerate (not even 30fps most of the time)..

 

[Demon]

Seriously, what's the difference between 800 cars and 400+ cars? I found the 200 and odd in Forza 2 to be overwhelming and I never got anywhere near driving them all.

It's nice to have the choice of course, but really it's just a boasting stat and most people won't actually care in the full game.

What really matters to most is does it have the car(s) I want..

I see GTPlanet is in full swing on the 'stats' though.. which on many levels puts me off GT5 (which I will be getting), the arguments are all centred around the numbers, which of course it's always 'nice' to have, but not if they could have reduced the 'numbers' and put more effort elsewhere..

A shining example would be PD/T10's approach to cars.. The instant reaction has been so negative towards the 400 cars (as opposed to GT5's 800+), but FM allows all non--race cars to have vast upgrades applied (and I like the fact they try to keep them within sensible reasonability), take a MKII Golf GTi, and you can have it anywhere between stock and a 3.2 V6 4WD Twin Turbo monster that will crush most race cars around the 'ring..

Now you can argue which is better, but I'd say that both approaches have their merits, and one is certainly not automatically better then the other despite huge disparity in the numbers..

 

[Demon]

To be fair to Mr Latte when Forza 2 came out he was the biggest champion of it on OCuk by far, especially in comparison pictures etc with GT5.

He's just very very into every detail of a driving game.

Must admit I hadn't noticed there was again no talk of weather

The rumour from an alledged employee on a forum the other day was no weather, no day/night, no active aero, and a lot of 'tuner' cars missing all due to deadline contraints..

And Mr Latte is entitled to his opinion, but for me, it's swung far to wildly to GT5 with the emphasis almost always on graphics these days..

 

[Demon]

<snippety-snip>

Whatever way you want to dress it up, you clearly are showing quite some bias towards GT5, that is A-OK of course, but don't expect to not be challenged on the raft of negativity you are bringing into a thread about FM3.. We get that you want all that GT5 has to offer and FM3 doesn't offer..

That is all really, I see a lot of good in both games, despite the fact I know some of it doesn't suit my tastes, perhaps I'm too open minded to these things, as I intend getting GT5, possibly even GT-PSP as well as FM3, I just can't get enough racing action, and don't want to miss out on any front..

However, with regards to FM3, I would have liked 'more' to match the GT5 numbers, but as I said, am happy that they've balanced the features to 'numbers' to still give a great game.

Hands-on feedback from IGN/Gamespot et-al is a resounding "stunning/beautiful' graphically, so it may not be GT5, but it's doesn't sound like anything less then 'great'..

I really want to hear more about the community features, they've specifically said 'no further details' so expect lots to come.. As with physics, etc, but they clearly think they have a lot to shout about..

The point about the car numbers is not trivial, Dan Greenawood states FM3 has got the most cars etc isnt true when even embarrisingly GT PSP has 800 on a portable. Yeah i wont drive 15 versions of a Skyline and that point is true as well but its the fact their hyping FM3 with unfactual information isnt a good way to promote it.

To be fair, I think what he is referring to is that they feel they have more distinct models of car.. GT so far has shown that 800 cars normally includes tens of variants of each car..
On that basis (if true), both can claim 'more' depending on how that is defined..
Marketing spin is always crap, how many times do we hear 'only possible on PS3'.. when technically that probably isn't the case.. however, they have peoples minds to 'sway'.. so it'll always be a function of promoting a product..

 

[Demon]

What do you mean no active aero?

I think this is referring to the spoilers on some cars that 'lift' at speed, and retract when slower (and/or flip up as an airbrake (Veyron))...

Well that's my understanding (I could be wrong)..

These where just rumours, but I think the source was semi-credible, an alleged T10 employee spouting off on a forum just after the E3 presentation, and he did have the econo-boxes and SUV's thing right..

But you never know... I think small things like this 'should' be put in for completeness, they've said the internal 'dials' and instrumentation will be working, and it'll be a bit of a shame if it's 'cut' due to deadlines..

 

[Demon]

How can developers ever hope to impress anyone when gamers are this anal about pointless things?

I think it's a minor point, but it's the little things like this that can really polish a game..

It's not confirmed/denied yet as whether it'll be in the final game.. They do show tyres deforming on the replays, which is uber-neat, so you'd think if they have put effort to show bendy tyres, the more 'trick' looking active spoilers etc would be a given..

I won't mind if it's not in, but will be a bit happier if they did put these tiny touches into the final game..

 

[Demon]

I know the AI in Forza 1 was vicious later on. So it is still overly aggressive in FM2 then? (which I haven't played) Shame.

What annoyed me was that turning it on to 'easy' made little difference later on in the game, it was still damn tough to beat and you had to drive perfectly which was rather white knuckle especially on long races.

The AI has been overhauled, the two notable points mentioned so far are
1. AI now makes mistakes under pressure, the higher the difficulty level, the less mistakes they make
2. Rubbing against other cars (ooh-err) won't spin you out or slow you down as much as it used to

Just based on those two points I'd say the AI has some potential..

SP Forza gets boring pretty quick, online is where the longevity is.

They've also overhauled the SP, with calendar events over mutliple disciplines, no idea of the details, but they've tried to make it a bit more enjoyable SP wise, but at the end of the day, it is more a driving game which only has limited appeal to some

 

[Demon]

Sim HQ E3 report

http://www.simhq.com/_commentary/all_090d.html

Good find, and that's very encouraging news!...

 

[Demon]

Looks like Eurogamer are exceedingly un-impressed, sounds like they are writing it off..

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/forza-motorsport-3-hands-on

 

[Demon]

Forza 3 looks a little less clinical that its predecessor - but still quite clinical, and despite Turn 10's confidence that it has the best-looking racing game in the world on its hands, it can't quite match GT5 Prologue's near-photorealism, GRID's bustling track drama or Need For Speed Shift's thrilling in-car view.

Seems to in-fer that it's quite bland, and is lacking on 3 fronts....

Could be a knee jerk response to having the words 'best' and 'definitive' rammed down his throat

[edit].. OK.. sorry, slight over-reaction there, was following it on another forum, if I actually 'read' it myself properly, and didn't just jump to the last statements it would seem much more balanced [/edit]

 

[Demon]

Can't see why not changing a huge amount from Forza2 could be a bad thing. It had its downsides, but there was nothing inherently wrong with it.
It's looking to have a nice accessible balance of graphical style, accuracy and gameplay.

Just had a thought, with the auto braking, it might mean you can race online with n00bs and not be hit from behind at 150mph every time you come up to a hairpin

Yeah, you aren't wrong there.. If I'm ever starting up-front when playing with some of my mates, I just slow down, let everyone past, and then overtake them all at the first corner where they all seem to outbreak each other...

Unfortunately, they'll just switch that nice feature off..

 

[Demon]

Just......what?? How on earth did you come to the conclusion that they are 'exceedingly un-impressed', and are 'writing it off'

Looks to me like the only real negative thing in that article is the auto-brake. I always turn all assists off anyway that it's a complete non-issue.

Simple, being a dumb-ass, and I read the report highlights on another forum, and didn't check the article fully before posting on here..

 

[Demon]

I don't know why all the worry (this is accross all forums) about 'dumbing-down'?

From what T10 has told us, and from some feedback already, it's pretty confirmed that they have extended it's abilities at both ends

Simulation
- New improved phsyics (some inspiration/info from MacLaren's Simulator e.g. Tyre deformation), more realistic centre of gravities.
- New 'improved AI'
- Better collision models (cars have different collision system to track objects, so scraping against another car won't have such a large effect)
- Still 60fps
- Clutch Support
- Interior views
- More freedom over MP Game types


Arcade features (all optional)
- Improved AI that makes more mistakes on easier settings
- Rewind features (might be useful for sim nuts too!)
- Auto Braking

I just can't get my head around why all the concern.. surely we know enough now to be very happy that they have pushed the sim side in the right direction, the fact they've added more 'assists' does nothing but widen the audience, there isn't a single 'assist' or feature that can be seen as 'dumbing it down' that can't be just switched off/ignored by a sim racer..

 

[Demon]

Blimey, a weekend off for beer and get back to see all this crap..

Probably best to stick to the main Forzamotorsport Forum at www.forzamotorsport.net for upcoming info, they are promising more 'details' each week in their pitpass blog (Every Friday has been the norm).

It isn't worth 'rising' to the bait, we know that FM3 has 8 cars, we know of the listed technical improvements, it's shaping up to be a reasonable step forward (being conservative) from FM2.

I fully expect to enjoy FM3, and I will sure as hell enjoy GT5 for a lot of different reasons, the fact these games (to me) offer a different feature set and experience but at similarly high levels means as a passionate racing fan, I'll be happy to play these alongside the more hardcore sims and not feel I have to pick a 'winner' at all. I'll also do the same with Shift and any other decent car racing games that come out..

I do admit that when it comes to GT5 there is a breed of passionate 'supporter' out there that panders to this game, however, as you see at GTPlanet, it's all about 'frame-by-frame analysis' of the graphics, or drooling over the latest released 'trailer' that has clearly been created just to satiate them (and quite why releasing in-game footage or some actual game details that would satiate the rest of us is so 'hard' for PD, I don't know), it's this passion that is alien to me I'm afraid, I'm more interested in the actual 'gameplay' aspects, which I feel is putting me in a minority..

 

[Demon]

From 'Landin', one of the comminity mangers? at Turn 10, on the subject of has FM2 been dumbed down in the physics department..

Nope...no watering down here. Turn off the assists and you're right at home with Forza 3. Remember Turn 10 is full of racing fanatics, and our driving feel is what makes this game what it is. As I said in another thread, there would be no need for additional assists if the games physics we're watered down.
Also there's no way we would abandon all the hard work and tuning we've done in the past 2 versions for the third installment. This is still Forza Motorsport folks, and our physics team is hard at work making sure we deliver the gameplay you have all come to expect from our franchise.
And finally the "Community at Play" video is CG and does not represent actual gameplay. If you want gameplay check out the "E3 2009 Trailer" that showcases tire deformation and suspension geometry.

I guess we will have to wait for more info over the coming weeks, or indeed a demo or something before we can assess if the improvements are tangible, but I don't think T10 are aiming for a revolution in sim-physics, just evolutionary over FM2. (And yes, I know this 'really' concerns some of you.. )