World Cup 2010 - GROUP C (England, USA, Algeria, Slovenia) **spoilers**

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simulatorman said:
Lol @ at the would-be England managers, it's almost as bad as the papers. :D
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its mostly common sense and its not just fans but its ex players , ex managers , current managers and our own players who are all thinking WTF at cappellos recent choices.

im half expecting it to come out in hello magazine next month that hes got a secret brain injury
 
"andy" said:
but the players ARE good enough (minus SWP and heskey maybe) they have proven this week in week out all season in one of the highest regarded leagues in the world

its something else thats wrong and for me its the formation and team selection
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Yes you are correct something is wrong. They are not good enough for top level international football. Comparing the WC with their performances in the EPL is flawed. People tend to forget in the league the national players are surrounded by immense foreign talent who not only make them look good but also hide the flaws. Very few of the most talented players making the headlines in the EPL are actually English. Same goes for Key players.

Reverse the logic: Not a single player in the England team plays outside of England.

The consequences are:

- You get a great league with world class football. However, this creates a misconception that English football is also great. People then expect the English National side to play equally and in the same breathtaking style.
This is not case, as so obviously displayed in this tournament and in the past.

- Inflated salary structure in the league. With so much foreign talent raising the quality the salaries reach fever pitch. This inflates salaries for all, creating a group of good to average players making an absolute fortune. The result is a laissez-faire mentality.

- Domestic talent is neglected. A direct consequence of the FA and the structure of the league.

- With no players abroad there are no sources of influence or inspiration. Any successful enterprise, be it sports or business or individual benefits from looking and learning at others.

Ironically the best England sides where in the days when the EPL was just that, an English league, with key players in the clubs being English.


Allow me to admit I am also fooled by the EPL. Again I had England as one of the favourites to win the cup. :o

Add the poor work-ethic seen versus Algeria and you have the current side. I would expect the English team to run their socks of in the next (last?) game.
 
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dannyjo22 said:
I would imagine terry listened to the players whinging and then aired it. It seemed the players whinging are the ones without the bottle to carry it through.

From reading the 'inside' info in the papers it was the players that didn't want terry to carry it through rather than him bottling it. He named the players that had been sitting about discussing the 'tactics' and they obviously didn't like that.

I think Capello did the right thing in deciding not to give into the team or we would be back to Sven and Beckham having too much power in the team.

There's lots of calls for Rooney to be employed in the lone striker role again, but we tried that before and it didn't work well and 99% of this forum moaned about rooney not being able to lead the line alone.
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Terry shouldn't have aired other players views to the press, especially if he's not going to talk to the manager about them; not only has he broken a confidence with his teammates, he's undermined the manager as well.

Once he gave the press-conference, I can't think of any reason why he shouldn't then go and speak to the manager about any issues he has, the damange has been done already. We're now left with a situation where Terry's quite possibly ****ed the manager and some of his teammates off but still not solved any of the issues.

Regarding Capello giving into the team; hopefully Capello will ignore what's been said either way and bases any decisions on players/tactics on their own merits. It would be terrible if he decided not to pick Cole (for example) just to prove a point and equally the opposite.

As for Rooney playing up front on his own; I can't recall many times Rooney played up front on his own for England (the only 1 springs to mind was the Portugal game where he got sent off) or at all before this season so it would be difficult to make a proper decision. This season however he's played regularly up top on his own for Utd and it's coincided with his best ever season. Added to that, Gerrard's played the best part of 2 seasons behind a lone striker and the 4-5-1 would allow us to get some width back on the left.

On paper the 4-5-1 with Gerrard off of Rooney and Cole on the left makes perfect sense, however it appears as if Capello doesn't fancy it.
 
FrankJH said:
Im sure James fumbled a shot at one point - he didnt exactly look dominating

Barry only looked good because of how badly everyone around him was playing - he didnt exactly set the world alight either

A Cole did ok - I still wish he was a nicer bloke though lol

considering how its gone so far and how badly majority are playing I think its a relief that a.johnson wasnt picked - even if England lose the group in the WC he is chosen for, at least we can hope the team is enjoying their game while being defeated
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I didn't say they played well. ;)
 
killajaz i get where your going and it makes a bit of sense but the EPL argument falls apart when you look at how many of those yanks play here and play here averagely. and then the US league where the rest of them play is a bit of a joke too. where our ageing players go and become stars.

i dont think we should be winning the tournament but we certainly should be easing through this group
Very few of the most talented players making the headlines in the EPL are actually English. Same goes for Key players
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dont agree with that . half the england team that has been playing are very big stars at there home clubs whereas most of the algeria team and some of the USA team would struggle to get a start
 
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Killajaz said:
- With no players abroad there are no sources of influence or inspiration. Any successful enterprise, be it sports or business or individual benefits from looking and learning at others.
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Don't agree with that at all, what about the foreign stars they play with?
 
Does anyone feel as if Capello is being payed more by the Italian mafia than the FA?

I really don't understand SO many of his decisions.

1. Why he chose to take Shaun Wright Phillips?
2. Why Shaun Wright Phillips is our first substitute when we have J.Cole and Milner on the bench? (I don't care about SWP's pace, he can't control a ball and run at the same time)
3. Why he hasn't played 4-4-1-1 with Gerrard playing behind Rooney?
4. Why he opts to start Heskey despite Rooney proving he doesn't need someone to hold the ball up to score goals.
5. Choosing Upson over Dawson who has had an exceptional season (screw experience, Upson is crap)
6. Why he plays Gerrard on the left
7. Why Hart is the third choice GK
8. Why he doesn't give his full backs more freedom to go forward (e.g against USA he brought on SWP to provide pace and cover for A.Cole when he could have just occupied the American left back by asking A.Cole to press forward more)

Honestly, the man is beyond comprehension.

Why didn't he start with the team everyone is crying out for?

J.Hart

A.Cole
J.Terry
L.King (Now Dawson)
G.Johnson

J.Cole
F.Lampard (playmaker)
G.Barry (holding)
A.Lennon

S.Gerrard

W.Rooney
 
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Its funny how everyone is going on about the inclusion of ONE PLAYER as if his sole presence would have changed anything in either of England's games. Even with 4-4-2 you would expect England to win vs Algeria with AVERAGE football, but they were worse than even that.

Joe Cole playing would have not made a difference.
 
xiphrex said:
Its funny how everyone is going on about the inclusion of ONE PLAYER as if his sole presence would have changed anything in either of England's games. Even with 4-4-2 you would expect England to win vs Algeria with AVERAGE football, but they were worse than even that.

Joe Cole playing would have not made a difference.
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Of course it would. Playing Joe Cole completely changes the shape of the team if you ask Gerrard to play up top behind rooney, even if you play him on the left it allows Gerrard to play in the center where he is much more prolific in a 4-4-2 formation.
 
xiphrex said:
Its funny how everyone is going on about the inclusion of ONE PLAYER as if his sole presence would have changed anything in either of England's games. Even with 4-4-2 you would expect England to win vs Algeria with AVERAGE football, but they were worse than even that.

Joe Cole playing would have not made a difference.
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he'd have done more than SWP. and we are not just asking for joe cole.

the main changes people are calling for is Joe Cole in Gerrards position, with gerrard in heskies. thats it. its not ******* rocket science to work out we've played best with gerrard supporting rooney with an actual left winger on the left which joe cole has done well for his entire england career. He's definitly worth a bigger punt than **** SWP who has done nothing in about 65 minutes of trying. He's a useless player who wobbles around then runs into somebody. he's like theo walcott just without the pace.
 
Gustov said:
Of course it would. Playing Joe Cole completely changes the shape of the team if you ask Gerrard to play up top behind rooney, even if you play him on the left it allows Gerrard to play in the center where he is much more prolific in a 4-4-2 formation.
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lol
 
No amount of formation or tactics would have really saved England on Friday against Algeria.

It was their complete and utter lack of ball control and simple passing technique that let them down. They couldnt even trap the ball properly for god's sake. Almost every pass was wayward, there was no urgency about them and they simply never looked like doing anything.

It looked more psychological than anything else.

The simple fact is, is that on Friday, none of them could actually play football at anywhere near the quality needed at this level, correct formation or not.
 
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