Poll: Poll: should the UK ban the islamic veil?

Sould the UK ban the Islamic veil as the French did?

  • Yes, ban the veil in the UK

    Votes: 688 64.9%

  • Don't like the veil, but a ban is not the right approach

    Votes: 255 24.1%

  • No

    Votes: 117 11.0%
  • Total voters
    1,060
cm1179 said:
that's the point, deadbeat. people have their differing reasons for the ban, i've voiced mine, right or wrong (iyo) i'm putting across my views and i believe that this poll (be it only on an internet forum) is a true reflection of how the country feels but not everyone speaks up about. it's not about racism so keep your 'pub trash' accusations comments out of it please
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The scary thing is, I think you're right - a great many people share your opinions, but don't voice them. Perhaps it's just bliss in ignorance, but I'm not as uncomfortable with people who suppress such opinions as I am with those who decry them as righteous gospel. You're also right that I should remove myself from the discussion - nothing I say is going to get through, and I don't have the patience or the temperament to try, so I'll pack up and observe from afar before I get offensive. Enjoy.
 
RDM said:
It is certainly a tool used to supress women. Hence why it is only women that have to cover up in such a way. It removes their individuality and reinforces their position as chattle. It is also somewhat insulting to men too, that we are incapable of gazing upon a women without lustful thoughts. I am struggling to understand why you would suggest it isn't a suppression tool when it so obviously is?
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I would argue that initially it was oppression but can it still be called oppression if a woman chooses to wear the veil for her faith?

Sikhs wear the turban to show submission and respect to God. Should turbans be banned too?
 
Dolph said:
I think this thread really needs a reminder of something.

Argumentum ad populum

The fallacy that if lots of people hold an opinion, that opinion must be true...
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There's so much fallacy in this thread, I can't be arsed any more.

Suffice to say, when everyone comes with their pitchforks to take away my freedom to wear pink socks (IT'S OPPRESSION!!!!), I'm shooting them all in the face.
 
Deadbeat said:
The scary thing is, I think you're right - a great many people share your opinions, but don't voice them. Perhaps it's just bliss in ignorance, but I'm not as uncomfortable with people who suppress such opinions as I am with those who decry them as righteous gospel. You're also right that I should remove myself from the discussion - nothing I say is going to get through, and I don't have the patience or the temperament to try, so I'll pack up and observe from afar before I get offensive. Enjoy.
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i didn't ask you to remove yourself from the conversation (i have no right to do that) but you said what i was saying was pub trash but hey you're entitled to your opinion, i just didn't see why you had to resort to that. now you're saying you might get offensive to me? i'm just trying to put my opinion across, i've done that and will no more unless i'm quoted on something. so please, don't leave on my account ...
 
RDM said:
It is certainly a tool used to supress women. Hence why it is only women that have to cover up in such a way. It removes their individuality and reinforces their position as chattle. It is also somewhat insulting to men too, that we are incapable of gazing upon a women without lustful thoughts. I am struggling to understand why you would suggest it isn't a suppression tool when it so obviously is?
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One last point - I'm sure it's actually down to choice, isn't it? I know a few Muslim women and very few of them wear burkas. The ones that do only wear them on special occasions, or occasions in general - days out with the family, or suchlike. Regardless, it's always been optional. Maybe I know the wrong type of Muslim.

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cm1179 said:
i didn't ask you to remove yourself from the conversation (i have no right to do that) but you said what i was saying was pub trash but hey you're entitled to your opinion, i just didn't see why you had to resort to that. now you're saying you might get offensive to me? i'm just trying to put my opinion across, i've done that and will no more unless i'm quoted on something. so please, don't leave on my account ...
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True, you didn't. However, we have very different opinions, and as I said, I don't have the rationality to structure a debate - I'm all too prone to rash abuse and derision. That's my own prejudice showing through. I still think you're reciting pub trash, but that's my opinion of your opinion of.. supine... onion... something. We'll just stand at a mutually respectful distance.
 
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OriginalJonty said:
I would argue that initially it was oppression but can it still be called oppression if a woman chooses to wear the veil for her faith?
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Because it isn't a true choice and massive amounts of cultural pressure are applied? I don't agree with the ban but frankly you are grasping at straws with what seems to be some sort of apologist stance you are taking. Look at the wearing of the viel around the world and honestly try and tell me it isn't a sign of oppression?
 
RDM said:
It is certainly a tool used to supress women. Hence why it is only women that have to cover up in such a way. It removes their individuality and reinforces their position as chattle. It is also somewhat insulting to men too, that we are incapable of gazing upon a women without lustful thoughts. I am struggling to understand why you would suggest it isn't a suppression tool when it so obviously is?
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Nothing surprising there that you cant understand why people may have a different opinion to you:).

As it is...yes there are women who are forced to wear it due to their hudbands or families forcing them to wear it whereas equally there are women who wear it because they want to. The way i see it that it should be left to the woman to wear one, she shouldnt be forced to wear it. Although im no big fan of it myself but if my fiancee ie future wife wants to wear one through her own choice then fair enough i wont stop her although i will tell her im not liking her decision but ultimately its her decision.

Thankfully my fiancee wouldnt wear one but she does wear a hijaab which i dont have a problem with....in fact i quite like it:)....but again it was her choice to wear it...in fact she was wearing it before we got together.
 
RDM said:
Because it isn't a true choice and massive amounts of cultural pressure are applied? I don't agree with the ban but frankly you are grasping at straws with what seems to be some sort of apologist stance you are taking. Look at the wearing of the viel around the world and honestly try and tell me it isn't a sign of oppression?
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And yet many are free to make the choice in public places. Okay, my experience of Muslim women is restricted to England and some parts of India where they can choose to wear the veil or not. I do not have experience in nations like Iran or Saudi Arabia where it is more likely to be oppression.
 
Spawn said:
Nothing surprising there that you cant understand why people may have a different opinion to you:).
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Oh grow up and ditch the huge islamic chip from your shoulder.

Spawn said:
As it is...yes there are women who are forced to wear it due to their hudbands or families forcing them to wear it whereas equally there are women who wear it because they want to. The way i see it that it should be left to the woman to wear one, she shouldnt be forced to wear it. Although im no big fan of it myself but if my fiancee ie future wife wants to wear one through her own choice then fair enough i wont stop her although i will tell her im not liking her decision but ultimately its her decision.

Thankfully my fiancee wouldnt wear one but she does wear a hijaab which i dont have a problem with....in fact i quite like it:)....but again it was her choice to wear it...in fact she was wearing it before we got together.
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So lets completely ignore the cultural pressures, lets compltely ignore its historical significance and lets completely ignore just how isolated it can make a women be. Pathetic.
 
Keep in mind I voted "Don't like the veil, but a ban is not the right approach". I hate religion, but not as much as I love freedom.

OriginalJonty said:
You know what I mean. The visor can be put down which would cut off eye contact between the person wearing the helmet and the person talking to them
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It's bloody rude isn't it? (Let's assume they're not robbing somewhere)

When you're talking to someone... you want to see their face. You take your sunglasses off, your hat off, your dust mask off... because (well apart from the hat, that's just something you're brought up with I guess) it's polite, it's how we communicate. It's not natural to (want to) keep your face completely covered, down right weird...

Like the veil'd woman who got fired from a school for refusing to take it off... the kids can't even see their teacher's face... I don't know about anyone else but I find it extremely hard to understand someone without seeing their mouth, suffered with that a lot at college because beacuse people would peek their heads over their monitors to talk to me and the amount of times I had to say 'what?' was crazy.


Youre saying we should ban veils when they're combined with sun glasses then? Or those ones with the mesh over the eyes?
 
steve-h said:
Keep in mind I voted "Don't like the veil, but a ban is not the right approach". I hate religion, but not as much as I love freedom.



It's bloody rude isn't it? (Let's assume they're not robbing somewhere)

When you're talking to someone... you want to see their face. You take your sunglasses off, your hat off, your dust mask off... because (well apart from the hat, that's just something you're brought up with I guess) it's polite, it's how we communicate. It's not natural to (want to) keep your face completely covered, down right weird...

Like the veil'd woman who got fired from a school for refusing to take it off... the kids can't even see their teacher's face... I don't know about anyone else but I find it extremely hard to understand someone without seeing their mouth, suffered with that a lot at college because beacuse people would peek their heads over their monitors to talk to me and the amount of times I had to say 'what?' was crazy.


Youre saying we should ban veils when they're combined with sun glasses then? Or those ones with the mesh over the eyes?
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I didn't call for a ban for motorcycle helmets being worn in public. Just because something could be considered rude is not basis enough to make it illegal.

If the veil is banned then wearing balaclava's, helmets etc in public places should also be illegal. It's an all or nothing situation.
 
OriginalJonty said:
I didn't call for a ban for motorcycle helmets being worn in public. Just because something could be considered rude is not basis enough to make it illegal.

If the veil is banned then wearing balaclava's, helmets etc in public places should also be illegal. It's an all or nothing situation.
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I hope balaclavas aren't made illegal... I'll be getting in a lot of trouble in the winter if that's the case!

I was just thinking about bike helmets; If you're going to rob, say, a petrol station, you'd leave your helmet on and rob it wouldn't you? you're only going to take it off if you're not going to rob the place? :confused: Maybe they lock the doors on you before you get in or something...
 
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