Poll: Poll: should the UK ban the islamic veil?

[lunarwolf]

Following Moses99 thread about the ban in France - could admins add a poll? thx

Sould the UK ban the islamic veil as the French did?

1. yes, ban the veil in the UK
2. don't like the veil, but a ban is not the right approach
3. no

EDIT: to clarify the ban is not about security. It is about women's place in modern society

EDIT 2: The ban in France concerns the Burkha (full faced veil) not the Chador (scarf on head, face visible)

 

[lunarwolf]

The two on the right have their face covered which could be a security risk.

the ban is not about security, it's about women's place in society - let's not confuse the issue

 

[lunarwolf]

How does the veil effect impact on that?

some muslims feel that women can not go out in public, that they be veiled etc... it doesn't impose such restrictions to men. it is completely sexist. maybe you should talk to a woman if you do not understand how this can be degrading for a woman.

 

[lunarwolf]

But it's not exclusively for that reason. Education not a ban. If husbands feel that way, they are probably breaking other laws. Physical/mental abuse and other areas.

It is absolutely no reason for a ban on an item of clothing.

i agree that a ban is the wrong approach (hence i voted option 2), i think education about women's rights is a better option.

a ban is a slippery slope imo and doesn't really address the real issue.

but i do believe that it is degrading to women and makes them into second rate citizens. the problem of how islam treats women is much greater than just wearing a veil -> virginity, forced marriages, polygamy, going out in public, getting a job, education, driving a car etc...

thankfully not all muslims are misogynists

 

[lunarwolf]

That's a very westernised view. I find it sad that so many people want to force their beliefs on others.

yes it is a western view, and proud of it. we don't force islamist to live here. if they feel strongly about it they should go live under shari'ah law in Saudi Arabia, I am not asking them to change their ways over there

 

[lunarwolf]

Since when was it the western way to force people how to dress?


That sounds like a concept you'd find in some backwards middle eastern country......


As always with these ideas the two extremes of the line are so close it may as well be circle.

i am not forcing anyone to dress a particular way. if you read my posts i clearly voted for option 2. but i do feel that the issue of how some forms of islam treats women is not in line with western values and this have no place here. I will not tolerate shri'ah law in governemnt laws in western countries, it is not what we stand for. i am tolerant of muslims, but i do draw the line when it infringes on our philosophy; therefore i would not tolerate public stoning etc....

Again i don't think a ban on a veil addresses this and thus not in favour of a ban. I would rather see more done about educationg people about western and modern views of society. If muslim women were asked their opinion without any risks of backlash, i am fairly certain an overwhelming majority would not want to wear the veil and be treated in such a submissive manner (education, employment etc...) or a piece of property over which the husband has the right of life and death.

 

[lunarwolf]

And the small few that are forced are usualy from backwards mentality families.

Thank you very much.

seriously lol. I have quite a few friends who are muslims, they are highly educated and don't wear the veil nor do they agree with it and would disagree with you on the fact that women are pressured to wear these.

unfortunately a lot of muslims in the third world (which is where the majority reside) are not as well educated as you pretend, and even less so when it comes to women. unfortunately this backward mentality you refer to is not a just few. women in those countries have very few rights, which is not the case in europe. the veil is a symbol of this oppression and thus counter to western values. to say it's a choice for all women wearing the veil is plain denial or misinformation.

FYI in France there is a big muslim women's movement called Ni Putes Ni Soumises (neither whores nor submissives) which was founded because muslim girls not wearing the veil were called whores, beaten, gang raped and murdered for not wearing the veil. this is not a few isolated cases. there have been many documented stories over the years.

 

[lunarwolf]

seems pretty clear to me that there aren't many women who troll the OCUK forum

 

[lunarwolf]

Things change... your not the first and you will not be the last to argue against things changing in our country over the centuries.

wearing the veil isn't really about change or progress, but a silly tradition imo - am i missing anything?

 

[lunarwolf]

The Celts originaly came from India.

lol, i hope you are joking. because that is complete nonesense

 

[lunarwolf]

We all came from Africa so

yes. but that doesn't change the fact that the celts didnt come from india. really some misinformed people

 

[lunarwolf]

seems Spain, Italy and Belgium are working on geting similar law passed

 

[lunarwolf]

Also doesn't this ban violate the French Constitution?



French Constitution

do you know what secular means??

 

[lunarwolf]

Not being linked to a religion which would mean in this case that the French Government cannot impose a national religion.

is france making them wear crosses? the burkha is a form of extreme islam which is not secular and completely incompatible with western values. it is obvious from all your posts that you clearly do not graps this fact eventhough you claim to be 2nd or 3rd generation UK citizen.

in case you had not noticed but there is an issue with extreme islam all over the world, it goes beyong the US and Europe as the recent attacks in Africa show us yet again. extremist islamists are at the route of most conflicts currently on the planet - this is not fear mongering this is a fact. France like Belgium decided to ban a form of extremist islam, the burkha. it may not be the best way imo, but it is a stand against radical islam. in fact Italy, Spain and now Germany are considering similar legislation, and from the poll results it isn't impossible the UK could do something similar.

now you can live in your bubble and pretend women choose to wear these burkhas, but fact is many have no choice and it is imposed by a radical view of Islam, which has no place in western culture.

 

[lunarwolf]

the burkha is not a part of radical Islam,

disagree

 

[lunarwolf]

Obviously this is a crime and her death is indeed sad. As I've said all groups have extremist elements.

Christian Terrorism.

are you serious? you now comparing Islamic terrorism to christian

 

[lunarwolf]

wow.

the amount of terrorism in the name of islam is so numerous it is not even worth my time listing, let's just say they covered all the continents copiously (except antartica)

when did a nun commit any terrorist act? not even going to answer your question since it's ridiculous, as are your arguments

 

[lunarwolf]

And yet Christian extremists have bombed abortion clinics in the USA, killed doctors who perform abortion. That is done in the name of Christianity.

Assassination of George Tiller

Other cases:
September 30, 2000: A Catholic priest drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being forced to the ground by the owner of the building who fired two warning shots from a shotgun.

Source

Army Of God

As I've said all sides, Chrisitian, Islam, Hinduism etc. have committed terrorist acts. Islam has become the bogeyman recently.

No one is talking about, for example, the Maoist attacks in India (Source) which are also terrorism. And these attacks are ongoing.

NY, Darfur, Israel, Bali, Spain, UK, India, France, Bosnia, Turkey, Nigeria, Niger, Ivory Coast, Uganda, Chechnya, Somalia, Yemen, Egypt, Jordan, Phillipines, and the list goes on. It's not a scapegoat as you put it, Islam has started these fires. frankly i find your comparison insulting.

 

[lunarwolf]

What an overly simplistic view you have on world affairs and history then.

Islam started all these fires did they?

i doubt that very much all these were terrorist acts committed by radical islamists. this is fact. are you going to begin your apologetic arguments for islamist terrorism now??

 

[lunarwolf]

No, I'm going to scoff at your historical ignorance of why world affairs are as they are now.

You completely blame every terrorist problem in the world on islam, without taking consideration of the causes I suspect.

murderers and rapists have reasons too. it doen't excuse the behaviour - this doesnt change the facts that these were terrorist acts commited by fundamental islamists looking to gain control.

i am well travelled, speak several languages, have lived abroad in different countries for many years, attended some of the best universities so please refrain from scoffing at my historical ignorance.

PS didnt see your edit, you can also stop insulting me and call me a racist. i am not racist and secondly this is about religion not race. BTW i am not in favour of a ban yet i do have a problem with radical islam. so please get off your high horse