phenom x4 970t blck edtition

[SubScape]

Threads like this are always a good read , but I genuinely hope it works out well for him and he returns with an interesting build log, with a one of a kind cpu. Maybe if he spends long enough on here, the forum crowd will rage him into submission

i heard he was arrested by the spelling police for gross negligence against the english language....apparently he went down keckin + skreming

That did make me laugh..

 

[Gashman]

Ah so he swore.

Honestly my main complaint was that you guys did not recommend the obvious bargain that is the 970T, but instead recommend others including the 1055T which is, IMHO, terrible advice.

This ZZZAC does, now, seem like he deserved to be banned. When I originally came to this thread I only saw terrible advice and a lot of flaming which is what caused me to post.

I still maintain that the 970T is a great buy. However my opinion about ZZZAC is now negative.

saying 'recommending a 1055T is terrible advice' isn't really true to be honest, there is a great number of reasons that was recommended, first being the guy seemed to have very limited grasp of computer components in general. got to remember a number of things when 'unlocking' cores, people don't tend to lock their cores for the good of their health, its generally down to defective cores. another point worth noting, not all motherboards support core unlocking so its a risk in that respect, also sometimes processors will unlock but you end up with instabilities caused by defective cores, causing you to lower clock speed, change voltages and what not.

so recommending a 1055T as an alternative is a great piece of advice, there is no unlocking required, its the same core (Thuban) as the 970T so nothing gained or lost their, would also be willing to say overclocking potential (most 1055T will do ~3.6Ghz on a decent board) will be on average very similar between the two, so the 1055T which is cheaper is clearly the best bet out of the two. additionally it gets rid of any potential 'Hong Kong' factor from the equation, even if the 1055T is 200Mhz behind on an overclock, never going to notice that in the real world to be honest. so with respect, don't understand why the 970T is a 'bargain'...?

Edit: though I won't give the guy grief about his PSU choice, since I run my system (heavily overclocked Q6600, 4870X2, etc.) on a 550W PSU, which according to 'sources' shouldn't be possible, hell even ran for a number of weeks on an old 450W OCZ modstream with no trouble, so I don't know what to make of the PSU part since I have never heard of iCute to be honest. however I do not for a second believe the power figures posted in numerous online reviews, since it obviously isn't correct, has to be down to their testing methods. no excessive heat, no excessive fan noise, no weird smells coming from PSU, endured some heavyweight gaming and still my 550W PSU is perfectly alive and well.

 

[paradisiac]

Edit: though I won't give the guy grief about his PSU choice, since I run my system (heavily overclocked Q6600, 4870X2, etc.) on a 550W PSU, which according to 'sources' shouldn't be possible, hell even ran for a number of weeks on an old 450W OCZ modstream with no trouble, so I don't know what to make of the PSU part since I have never heard of iCute to be honest. however I do not for a second believe the power figures posted in numerous online reviews, since it obviously isn't correct, has to be down to their testing methods. no excessive heat, no excessive fan noise, no weird smells coming from PSU, endured some heavyweight gaming and still my 550W PSU is perfectly alive and well.

i think a lot of people that were advising him against the iCute was through experiences either they had or someone they knew had with that particular brand. thats not to say 100% of iCute stuff will go pop, but there are some that do so that should be taken into account when deciding what value items you risk on it. for the sake of £50-£80 would you risk £500+ worth of hardware?

 

[Danfoss2011]

The CPU is OEM only and show up only in China it seams!

It's cheap for the price of an unlocked X6, 6 cores! Then you have the turbo thing or you can overclock it.

With the new AMD stuff coming i'd rather hold off. The die hard out there will jump on to the new stuff and im sure we shall see lots of amazing X4's and X6's come up 2nd hand. Then there will be revisions on the new stuff and price drops!

Tricky, go for it and enjoy the fun and free extra 2 cores. Personly im going to wait, im happy with my unlocked X2 555 BE but the new stuff im looking forward too

 

[SouthEastBlue]

i think a lot of people that were advising him against the iCute was through experiences either they had or someone they knew had with that particular brand. thats not to say 100% of iCute stuff will go pop, but there are some that do so that should be taken into account when deciding what value items you risk on it. for the sake of £50-£80 would you risk £500+ worth of hardware?

He actually spent £70 on that iCute power supply which was ridiculous considering what he could have bought for the money. It was from the knowledge of that purchase, along with him buying some old dual Xeon setup that he was told to ask here to get the best for his money which he simply ignored and responded only with defence at his purchase and how it might not be good enough for others but will be good for him (because in his stubborn mind he bought it and he thinks he knows best).

I wasn't sure if he was a troll, but I genuinely think he is a silly little boy who asks for opinions that he really doesn't want to hear. There is no reasoning with him, but if he wants to learn the hard way buying up out of date/poor hardware and wasting his money then that's his problem.

I don't think this CPU is a bad buy though as long as he received it and it works, but his attitude stinks and you only need to look at his graphics card thread to see how immature he is (even for a 14 year old).

 

[superste2201]

saying 'recommending a 1055T is terrible advice' isn't really true to be honest, there is a great number of reasons that was recommended, first being the guy seemed to have very limited grasp of computer components in general. got to remember a number of things when 'unlocking' cores, people don't tend to lock their cores for the good of their health, its generally down to defective cores. another point worth noting, not all motherboards support core unlocking so its a risk in that respect, also sometimes processors will unlock but you end up with instabilities caused by defective cores, causing you to lower clock speed, change voltages and what not.

so recommending a 1055T as an alternative is a great piece of advice, there is no unlocking required, its the same core (Thuban) as the 970T so nothing gained or lost their, would also be willing to say overclocking potential (most 1055T will do ~3.6Ghz on a decent board) will be on average very similar between the two, so the 1055T which is cheaper is clearly the best bet out of the two. additionally it gets rid of any potential 'Hong Kong' factor from the equation, even if the 1055T is 200Mhz behind on an overclock, never going to notice that in the real world to be honest. so with respect, don't understand why the 970T is a 'bargain'...?

Urgh.. Again seriously?

The CPU will unlock stably, it is a guarantee of the sale.

He clearly said he has a MSI 870 fusion, which supports unlock and MSI were the first company to unlock the quad core thubans to hexacores.

The 1055T has locked multipliers, which means it can only be overclocked via the reference clock. This is a lot more difficult for a novice, so in itself is bad advice for him if he is a novice. You COULD unlock it to 3.5ghz with higher temps, voltage, NB & RAM stable after the reference clock OC, and a good board.

The 1055T is 2.8ghz with locked multipliers. For £127.
The 970T unlocked is 3.5ghz with unlocked multipliers. For £137.
FOR COMPARISON
The 1090T is 3.2ghz with unlocked multipliers. For £148.
The 1100T is 3.3ghz with unlocked multipliers. For £170.

For a mere £10 he is getting +700mhz stock speed and unlocked multipliers.If you are unsure of the worth of this just look at the 1100T. It will also (more than likely) reach at least 4.2ghz on air OCed. Again this chip will maintain a much higher price then the 1055T due to its rarity and the fact that it is the fastest AM3 processor available.

How is the 1055T the better choice?

 

[Gashman]

i think a lot of people that were advising him against the iCute was through experiences either they had or someone they knew had with that particular brand. thats not to say 100% of iCute stuff will go pop, but there are some that do so that should be taken into account when deciding what value items you risk on it. for the sake of £50-£80 would you risk £500+ worth of hardware?

the problem is though, as I said I have never heard of iCute so I can't really comment on that side of things. but I do think that a lot of the power draw is ballooned out of proportion, either that or my 4870X2 is insanely power efficient which is unlikely. but saying that I would be inclined to trust you guys with brands and what not, tend to go for known quality power supplies personally, this one is energy efficient 'Gold' rated, plus it weighs a ton as well and is built like a brick **** house. so no, I wouldn't skimp on getting a decent power supply, also wouldn't openly shun the advice of people with great knowledge in this subject.

 

[Gashman]

also didn't say it was a better choice, simply said its not a stupid recommendation. fair enough, the 970T will unlock, but will it unlock with stability..? mate of mine had a Phenom II a while back which we unlocked (X2 to X4) and it became insanely unstable, fair enough it unlocked but it clocked really badly, much worse than it did at dual-core, is that guaranteed? if it is totally stable as well, then sure its a great deal but will you really notice the performance increase over a 1055T clocked at lets say 3.8Ghz, which a lot of them will do without much trouble, my Q6600 clocks higher than it is now but the increase in voltage required to do it, with no obvious improvements made me think 'why bother...?'

so if the said 970T unlocks fully stable, with no issues then that is awesome and thumbs up on a good deal, just wouldn't be too happy personally with pinching my build on something that may not be stable when unlocked, would much rather find a good deal on an actual X6 and be done with it, but that is just my personal view on it.

 

[deusexlumina]

Its just a lot of money for something that will be "old hat" very soon. He could have gone sandybridge with the amount of money he's been throwing at things according to these threads, and he would have had a much better performing system.

Dont get me wrong, i love amd, and own a 1055T myself, but considering bulldozer is around the corner and sandybridge has been "fixed" it just seems like a daft purchase. Even more so as he bought the cpu before any other components iirc...

Still, too late now. Wack on in the MSI board, unlock and prey its stable. Clock it to 4.0ghz while making use of a good third party cooler, not the am3 hsf, and you'll still have a good rig.

 

[superste2201]

also didn't say it was a better choice, simply said its not a stupid recommendation. fair enough, the 970T will unlock, but will it unlock with stability..? mate of mine had a Phenom II a while back which we unlocked (X2 to X4) and it became insanely unstable, fair enough it unlocked but it clocked really badly, much worse than it did at dual-core, is that guaranteed? if it is totally stable as well, then sure its a great deal but will you really notice the performance increase over a 1055T clocked at lets say 3.8Ghz, which a lot of them will do without much trouble, my Q6600 clocks higher than it is now but the increase in voltage required to do it, with no obvious improvements made me think 'why bother...?'

so if the said 970T unlocks fully stable, with no issues then that is awesome and thumbs up on a good deal, just wouldn't be too happy personally with pinching my build on something that may not be stable when unlocked, would much rather find a good deal on an actual X6 and be done with it, but that is just my personal view on it.

Ah I just saw this

so the 1055T which is cheaper is clearly the best bet out of the two

, my apologises if you did not mean that the 1055T is the better choice.

They are tested and handpicked for stability, they also sell the ones that failed to unlock correctly/stably. Bare in mind this is the exact same way that corsair/Kingston handpick memory ICs for high-end RAM.

Generally the 1055T is 15% slower than the 1100T. Both at stock and both OCed.

The 970T unlocked will not be much faster than a 1100T, properly about 5% faster.

This means that the 970T unlocked will be about 20% faster then the 1055T, stock and both OCed.

For £10 surely this is incredibility good value? I can guarantee if the 1100T was £140 you guys would NOT recommend the 1055T over it.

However if you guys do not think it is an good bargain then we should leave it at that. After all he has already purchased it which makes the discussion only useful as future reference for people who may be thinking of getting the 970T.

 

[deusexlumina]

The 970T unlocked, 1055T and 1100T are all based on the same architecture. If they were all at at 3.0Ghz and all running with 6 cores, they would perform exactly the same.

If a 1055T was purchased, and overclocked to 3.5ghz, it would perform the same as the unlocked 970T.

 

[superste2201]

The 970T unlocked, 1055T and 1100T are all based on the same architecture. If they were all at at 3.0Ghz and all running with 6 cores, they would perform exactly the same.

If a 1055T was purchased, and overclocked to 3.5ghz, it would perform the same as the unlocked 970T.

Except the 1055T is multiplier locked, so is hard to overclock and you do not have as much control.

And, although what you say is true, AMD sort processors by binning.

Some 1055T's will not be able to run at 3.5ghz and will be highly unlikely to overclock to 4ghz. The 970T unlocked will always be able to run at 3.5ghz and will, more than likely, OC to over 4ghz on air.

Even if the 1055T had 3.5ghz stock, the unlocked multiplier is still worth the extra £10 and is what a lot of people prefer. Just look at the i5 2500k and 2500.

 

[gug54321]

reminds me of the bay "genuine raybans" i bought from HK guarenteed to be genuine all for the big price of 10 quid lol

 

[deusexlumina]

Except the 1055T is multiplier locked, so is hard to overclock and you do not have as much control.

And, although what you say is true, AMD sort processors by binning.

Some 1055T's will not be able to run at 3.5ghz and will be highly unlikely to overclock to 4ghz. The 970T unlocked will always be able to run at 3.5ghz and will, more than likely, OC to over 4ghz on air.

Even if the 1055T had 3.5ghz stock, the unlocked multiplier is still worth the extra £10 and is what a lot of people prefer. Just look at the i5 2500k and 2500.

Although i understand what you are saying, the binning argument is irrellevant. The 970T itself has been binned as it was deemed not suitable to be used as a 6 core part. Through its very product name it's been idenitifed as inferior silicon to the original hex core lineup.

The fact this has been identified to unlock is good, however in theory it is still worse silicon than on other 6 core models. It is unlikley it will overclock better than the native 6 core parts.

The vast majority of 1055Ts hit 3.5ghz easily on stock volts, for example my one is sitting at 4.0Ghz on 1.488v and doesn't break 60 degrees after 11 hours of prime. They are good chips, although i agree they are harder to overclock due to a locked multiplier.

Im afraid the 2500 and 2500k point is not valid either. Inte lhas locked bus overclocking, the only way to overclock with sandbridge is to buy a K chip. This is why they are so popular.

For ZZZAC the 970T isn't a terrible purchase, but it's not a great one either. The chipset he is using is not a performance overcloking chipset. The power management on the board is not as good as on higher end am3 boards using the higher end chipsets. So even if the chip is brilliant, the board may not even be able to clock it as much as he would like.

 

[superste2201]

Although i understand what you are saying, the binning argument is irrellevant. The 970T itself has been binned as it was deemed not suitable to be used as a 6 core part. Through its very product name it's been idenitifed as inferior silicon to the original hex core lineup.

The fact this has been identified to unlock is good, however in theory it is still worse silicon than on other 6 core models. It is unlikley it will overclock better than the native 6 core parts.

The vast majority of 1055Ts hit 3.5ghz easily on stock volts, for example my one is sitting at 4.0Ghz on 1.488v and doesn't break 60 degrees after 11 hours of prime. They are good chips, although i agree they are harder to overclock due to a locked multiplier.

Im afraid the 2500 and 2500k point is not valid either. Inte lhas locked bus overclocking, the only way to overclock with sandbridge is to buy a K chip. This is why they are so popular.

For ZZZAC the 970T isn't a terrible purchase, but it's not a great one either. The chipset he is using is not a performance overcloking chipset. The power management on the board is not as good as on higher end am3 boards using the higher end chipsets. So even if the chip is brilliant, the board may not even be able to clock it as much as he would like.

Well hexacores get locked either because they have a fault and will probably not unlock and be stable or to supply demand. They are binned differently to the classic quality method.

The i5 2500 is overclockable using the BCLK, although very poorly with not much control. I still maintain that for £10, the multiplier on its own more than justifies it.

Didn't he get the MSI 870A fuzion power?

The MSI 870A fuzion power has a high quality vrm with drmos and 8+2 power phase, supporting well over 140w, giving lots of overclock room..

 

[deusexlumina]

Well hexacores get locked either because they have a fault and will probably not unlock and be stable or to supply demand. They are binned differently to the classic quality method.

The i5 2500 is overclockable using the BCLK, although very poorly with not much control. I still maintain that for £10, the multiplier on its own more than justifies it.

Didn't he get the MSI 870A fuzion power?

The MSI 870A fuzion power has a high quality vrm with drmos and 8+2 power phase, supporting well over 140w, giving lots of overclock room..

Sorry but i'm quite sure the BCLK is locked, and if it can be altered i swear i've only seen people move it up to about 204 iirc? i may be wrong though.

If he got the "power" edition model then yes that's fine. However i was under the impression he had sourced the earlier version which was not as good, and used the older 770 chipset which requires more voltage to achieve the same clock compared to the 870 chipset.

 

[Someone]

From what I understood he had sourced the standard version which only has 4+1 phase VRMs (the power edition has 10+1). We were advising him against this and there was even a link given to another forum where a number of MSI boards with 4+1 phase were dying while trying to run 6 core cpus (even without overclocking) including a few of the standard 870a fusion boards but he ignored this advice and went ahead and got the board anyway.

This was one of the reasons that I advised that he should not have got the 970T & should get a 95w 1055t. As it is the 970T is a 125w cpu before it is unlocked & when unlocked the power requirement will increase (probably to 140w+ before overclcking) & by the sounds of it the board may well not cope.

 

[spleenharvester]

He actually got one of the exploding MSI boards? Jesus, I feel for his future self. Did anybody link him to the damage pictures?

 

[superste2201]

Hmmm if he did get a 4+1 power phase MSI board it may well explode....

Most use terrible nikos mosfets as well.

 

[Someone]

There's a link on page 2 to a thread on Hard Forum which is 13 pages long all about msi boards dying with 6 core cpus installed with a number of pictures of the damage done when the board goes & some people reporting that it took their cpu with it.