Soldato
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I totally get that but thats the point im making.
On the one hand - £60m to spend = great.
On the other
£60m only buys Carroll, Henderson and Adam.
** Summer Transfer Window 2011/12 Season Rumours/Signings **
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I totally get that but thats the point im making.
On the one hand - £60m to spend = great.
On the other
£60m only buys Carroll, Henderson and Adam.
I agree with the sentiment entirely - just thinking of the slim possibility of Berba going back to Spurs......
Utd have been desperately short of goals from CM for farrrrrrr too long, Im going to hope we buy experience to get some of those goals back
Rodwell may well be one for the future, but imo with Scholes retiring, Giggs playing 50% of games at best (if at all) , Carrick and Fletcher while decent players arent the type to carry the centre of the pitch for a period while youngsters grow into their roles imo (and Anderson is great on his day but needs consistancy)
I totally agree as far as you go - but if its a choice of him and no one else (in CM) or someone a little older /more experienced - I would go with the latter
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True but these crazy prices started when Ronaldo went to madrid and City out bid every one by obscene amounts now it seems £10 - £20m gets you good/average(Or v young but "potential talent" and anything above money wise gets you bit better or experience.
Caporegime
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HE had a good scoring record, and assisting frankly, but the second RVP was fit Chamakh was benched despite being in actually good form, and importantly the team was playing well.
Wenger did his "prefered player is fit, screw the other players thing" and Chamakh dissappeared. He played in every single one of the first 19 games in one way or another, scored 7 with 5 assists in 19 games, not epic, not bad either. In the next 16 games he played 154 minutes, then played 180 over the last 3 games of the season. Basically Wenger was just done with him, same way the second Theo was fit again he was pushed into the team, people who were playing before in better form with the team playing better, dissappeared.
Theres no rotation at Arsenal, theres no, protect Cesc/RVP stuff, Stoke before our biggest game in 6 years, of course, start the same team as usual and pick up injuries. Thats why our bench is so upset all the time, Eduardo, Vela, Bendtner, Eboue, Arshavin, Chamakh are all decent players, frankly they are all much better than Theo, Nasri, Sagna, Diaby, but Wenger doesn't really like them so if theres ANY other option they remain on the bench.
One thing I really can't understand, why on earth has Frank decided Nasri wouldn't be a Scholes replacement, but Modric/Sneijder are ready made replacements...... this season Sneijder and Nasri have played a similar position while Modric has played a far more withdrawn role. Modric has been closer to the Wilshire DM with good passing, than Sneijder's ultra attacking ball hogging shooting, freekick taking very advanced role, which is what Nasri's wanted to do all year.
Soldato
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IMO the plan for our CM was Carrick and Hargreaves and we have been playing catch up ever since the Hargreaves injury. Fletcher, good as he has been, has built a career on being the understudy to Hargreaves. We need 3 players to do the same job that 2 players used to do (tackle pass and provide a goal threat) from midfield.
If we need someone to sub in at rb then it's more likely to be smalling is what Imeant.
Soldato
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Do you think he could have played alongside RVP?
Caporegime
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Rubbish, 80mil for Ronaldo is only a little bit more than previous insane spending by the likes of Lazio, Barca, and Real over the past decade. Do you remember how much Figo, Zidane, Ibra to Barca, and half the Lazio side Sven brought in the late 90's cost?
Chelsea over the past decade, Ronaldo's purchase didn't change anything. The same way Kompany cost £5million, and Tiote was cheap, and players still go on free transfers, Dembele was a steal, etc, etc.
Multiple clubs interested in the same player, bidding war, higher price, this has been the way of football for 30 years. How many players have gone for 80mil since Ronaldo? Was Ozil 40mil, or 18mil? Theres loads of good deals around, clubs overpay for players frequently.
Comolli's also pretty much always loved to buy loads of expensive English players and overpay for most of them, its what he does.
55m for Kaka (admittedly if my memory serves that was only weeks before Ronaldo was announced) was pretty crazy even for the indisputed No 1 player in the world at the time (or did he already have injury concerns at that point)?
Its been getting steadily worse for years and years even before that summer 3 Summers ago
I was using them as examples yes its been getting worse but imo it seems to have hit very much so in last 2 seasons maybe i didnt phrase correctly 
Just to jump in regarding Chamakh, Can any one see him being used much next year as if not are any Arsenal fans worried he would be gone also?
Just to jump in regarding Chamakh, Can any one see him being used much next year as if not are any Arsenal fans worried he would be gone also?
Caporegime
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In a 4-4-2, sure, but Bendtner is the better player, with a better scoring and assist record, Wenger simply won't play him. He played 500 minutes this season, with 2 goals and 2 assists, with a great record in the cups Fa cup, 5 games 3 goals 4 assists, carling cup, 4 games, 3 goals.
Last season when he played ONLy when RVP got injured, he scored 6 and 5 assists in 13 starts, he started 5 champs league games with 5 goals, one of those goals away to Barca, he also set up two goals against Barca.
Wengers got this dumbass system in his head, he keeps buying players not suited to it, he will only play certain guys like Bendtner if everyone else is injured, when the other guys are fit again he puts Theo/RVP/Nasri/Song/Diaby/Sagna straight back in the team despite several of them literally being awful and a couple simply who aren't working well in their positions, RVP is anything but a lone striker.
Its simply not working, we're one of the only clubs around who are dumb enough to not rotate really at all until injuries occur, everyone else tries to prevent injuries by resting players, Wenger just leaves the bench out of form with no game time till he's forced to play them.
Sounds like we're buying ANOTHER striker, to play on the wing, when strikers is the last thing we ruddy need.
Soldato
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£80m for Ronaldo was a bargain.
There is no relationship between £80m for Ronaldo and £35m for Carroll for example.
Carroll is a good player but is horribly over priced. He may go on to give Liverpool £35m worth of service but at the time of signing it was far too much money.
Henderson looks great and may go on to be a quality player ( I suspect he will) but at the time of signing he wasw far too much money.
Ronaldo was as close to a sure thing as you can buy.
Caporegime
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I was using them as examples yes its been getting worse but imo it seems to have hit very much so in last 2 seasons maybe i didnt phrase correctly
Just to jump in regarding Chamakh, Can any one see him being used much next year as if not are any Arsenal fans worried he would be gone also?
Chamakh should go, he'll get used if RVP gets injured, if RVP manages a whole year unscathed Chamakh will barely play 5 games like Bendtner this year. 80k a week to sit on the bench. My preference is get a new manager in, go back to 4-4-2, Bendtner/RVP start, but give Chamakh plenty of games and actually protect our first team by rotating.
Under Wenger my preference is to sell Chamakh, 4mil in wages this season, if we sell for 8-10mil we'd make a profit, another year later and we'll have paid 8mil in wages, and he'll be worth less, let him run out a 4 year contract on the bench and we've thrown away 16-20mil with signing on fee's and bonuses, and he'll walk out like everyone else at Arsenal is doing.
What I think will happen, Wenger stays, keeps Chamakh on the bench, playing him only in emergencies, sell Bendtner(the better player) because Bendtner will force a move finally.
Well to quote you regarding Rodwell, "one of those players who we would regret not signing later even if he seemed overpriced at the time (a bit like Jones in that respect)"
Jones and Henderson essentially cost the same for example. As much as Jones might be one you regret not signing later even if he seemed overpriced at the time, Henderson may well be one we regret not signing later even if he seemed overpriced at the time. Therefore if Henderson is overpriced then Jones is too, making both teams as bad as each other.
The prices have rocketed, particularly for English players, as demonstrated by Jones and Henderson. Of the 60m you mention, 35m was for Carroll, which was as much due to the situation as anything. Which means that it is £25m for Henderson and Adam, both players wanted by other teams in the top 4, so clearly both players highly rated and in demand. I'm content with £25m for the two of them.
I personally think that we will go over £100m spent this summer and its been a long time since we've been in a position to do that, previously the other teams could have bullied us out on price for our targets, for the first time in a while that isnt the case, which makes me glad
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Wenger had nothing to do (tactically) with Chamakh being dropped - it was because he was knackered, he admitted it himself I remember the article - he was talking about being tired after the pre-season and by Christmas he was exhausted. Then after Christmas with RVP returning to fitness he had a struggle getting back into the team.
I'd expect him to be like a new signing now given he's had more time to adjust and also with Vermaelen back too that's 2 class 'signings' right there for Arsenal - the latter was missed hugely IMO, a captain-like presence like his is what makes the difference between slipping down to 4th and taking the fight to the wire.
I'd expect him to be like a new signing now given he's had more time to adjust and also with Vermaelen back too that's 2 class 'signings' right there for Arsenal - the latter was missed hugely IMO, a captain-like presence like his is what makes the difference between slipping down to 4th and taking the fight to the wire.
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Soldato
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TBH i think it goes well beyond the players you sign.
Again i mean no disrespect, its just my opinion. When we beat you with Fabio and Rafael as wingers it summed up that its not about the players on the pitch, its all about the mentality. I think Wenger is a great manager but we shouldnt be able to shake you off your game by playing 3 defenders in a midfield 4. I think that sent out a message (if other games didnt) that Arsenal are a weak weak team. Talented? Yes of course, one of the best teams, but no plan B and lacking leadership. Until that is sorted out im not sure it really matter what players you sign.
As an aside, where could Wenger go if we signed Nasri and he turned in a good consistant season?
Soldato
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I really dont think the Carroll transfer can be compared in this way, it was completely dependant on the Torres transfer, so Newcastle knew they could basically ask for whatever they wanted. Not to mention it extremely rare for such a big deal to be done in the january window.
Soldato
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With the greatest of respect we are doing it from the position of being title winners and CL finalists. We can afford to buy for "the future" as "the current" has just proven itself to be good enough to lift trophies.
You are doing it NEEDING a return to CL football. You need these players to peform NOW. We dont so much.
Your £20m midfielder should be a £20m player closer to CL qualification. Our £16m defender can learn from Vidic and Rio with no pressure.
Soldato
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It doesnt matter about Torres. It doesnt make Carroll a better or worse signing.
What did Carroll bring between Jan and May that made the premium worth it?
Both transfers were a disaster in that respect.
Carroll was bought for £35m when there was no rival bid, no prize to chase and frankly no need. He was a £15m player at best.
He can go on to be a huge success at Liverpool ( and i think he may) but that doesnt make it good business.
The quota on team's having so many players trained in England is as much reason as any to blame for the hike in price of home grown talent. Clubs are not churning off home grown talent like Barcelona are, so any team with a talented, and especially young English player already have the ball in their court. The top clubs know they need these players as well as foreign influence so the team's producing these players can sit back and let the bidding war commence or simply set an astronomical price for them (ie Andy Carroll) and see if the clubs bite.
SAF seem's to be trying to get as many deals done early for once, to stop any possible bidding war's happening for Utd's targets. But he's still came to the table with a substantial 1st bid that doesn't give the selling team's the thought of possibly getting more. If say £12m would have been offered for Jones at 1st, Blackburn, knowing Arsenal were also interested, would maybe have held out for a week or so hoping for them to come up with an offer.
SAF seem's to be trying to get as many deals done early for once, to stop any possible bidding war's happening for Utd's targets. But he's still came to the table with a substantial 1st bid that doesn't give the selling team's the thought of possibly getting more. If say £12m would have been offered for Jones at 1st, Blackburn, knowing Arsenal were also interested, would maybe have held out for a week or so hoping for them to come up with an offer.
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