** Summer Transfer Window 2011/12 Season Rumours/Signings **

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lol

i dont think valencia, nani, sanchez, anderson, fletcher, carrick or a billion other players will ever climb to the heights of ronaldo either, does that mean you should get rid of them all and replace them with 11 ronaldo's? your comparing the best or 2nd best player in the world with someone who doesnt even come in the top 50 players in the world.

I wasn't making the comparison. I was commenting on someone else talking about them in the same breath. All I said was that I never rated him that highly :p

And as I don't rate him I would indeed get rid of him if someone offered silly money for him. Or even good money lol
 
It just so happens for a little while that United were lucky enough to have one of the two best players in the world.
You cannot hold up Nani (the best winger in the league by quite some distance still) and say he is not very good because he isnt as good as the best player in the world.
If we had never had Ronaldo (and to be fair for 3 of his seasons at united he wouldnt of been missed if he had gone) we would be holding Nani up as an all time United great and people comparing the likes of Valencia and Bale to him would be laughed at in the face.

Its like going back to 2001 and saying Beckham is crap because he isnt Figo and Paul Scholes is an overated ginger midget who is not good enough because he isnt as good as Zidane.

No it is more a case of me not personally rating him that highly. As for saying he might be considered a `great` if Ronaldo wasn't there then I must have missed those games that he did well. Greats have to be consistent and from what I have seen of him, he isn't despite his flashes of skill.

I did say it was just my opinion though so I am right. :p
 
Eh? Ronaldo being sold was a great deal, firstly, 80mil wasn't superb value commercially and quality of the player, 80mil isn't "expensive" for a guy like him, he'll rake in shirt sales, sponsorship, fans like almost no other player on earth, ever, 50 goals a season he'll be instrumental in them winning titles again.

But Utd have serious debt, they needed a large chunk of cash to buy in replacements for 3-4 aging members of the squad, those purchases were just delayed a couple years. Sure you could have Ronaldo now, but you'd have no money to replace Scholes, VDS, Giggs and a couple of others.

I said on these forums, the money for transfers is NOT the issue 2 years ago, they are waiting for retirements then will spend big.

its not about how much cash you have in the bank to spend on transfers, its about weekly incoming and outgoing cash. With Scholes, VDS, Neville, Giggs, and whoever else leaves over the summers wages off the books, that money can now go on the wages for the replacements.

I've said for ages that when Utd have a big "retiring" season they'll buy replacements on a fairly big scale, they were just waiting for wages.

Transfer money isn't an issue, they can buy a central midfielder aswell, its not an issue. However, anything could happen, system change, always a 4-4-2, two dm's and one ultra attacking player like Young as the other central midfielder.

Also still find it weird that Utd fans keep going on about how Nani/Valencia is fine and young = more than enough cover........ can Utd fans do maths, 2 positions, one player gets injured for a season, like Valencia, and you are down to two real wingers, with no cover/rotation ability.

Two wingers is never enough, 3 is the bare minimum you want, and 4 gives you proper cover. Considering two of those guys actually like playing as a withdrawn striker, then some games they can sit out, some they'll play on the wing, and some they'll play upfront.

I still think selling Ronaldo was wrong, regardless of what we got paid for him. Some players are priceless simply because there's nobody out there you CAN replace him with. The Glazer's debt should be the last thing on our mind when making footballing decisions imo. I would have kept Ronaldo for the simple fact that he can singlehandedly win games - I look at our current side and don't see anyone else who can do that (maybe Rooney when we first signed him, but not now).

I never said Valencia and Nani are enough cover on the wings, as Obertan isn't anywhere near good enough and apart from that... well... To me Valencia should be the backup to Nani and we need another WC winger, but that's a whole different argument that I'm sure would get me flamed no end.

We don't need to be buying another forward in Sanchez (unless Berbs is leaving) and to me we had adequate defensive cover in Smalling/JEvans - what I wanted was a wholesale replacement of the midfield who are either leaving/retiring/too old or ****.

Also - saying Nani isn't consistent and Ronaldo was? People seem to have really quickly forgotten the three seasons of endless stepovers/failing to get it in the box that infuriated Utd fans long before the chants of 'Viva Ronaldo'.
 
Also - saying Nani isn't consistent and Ronaldo was? People seem to have really quickly forgotten the three seasons of endless stepovers/failing to get it in the box that infuriated Utd fans long before the chants of 'Viva Ronaldo'.

Football fans are a fickle bunch :D
 
No it is more a case of me not personally rating him that highly. As for saying he might be considered a `great` if Ronaldo wasn't there then I must have missed those games that he did well. Greats have to be consistent and from what I have seen of him, he isn't despite his flashes of skill.

I did say it was just my opinion though so I am right. :p

So the fact he made more assists in a season and scored more goals than Giggs has EVER done in a season means he isnt an all time great?

But Giggs is?

The fact that last season he had what would have been considered a "good season" for Giggs at any stage of his career assists and scoring wise means he isnt that good?

So Giggs has been rubbish for the past 20 years then?
 
Football fans are a fickle bunch :D

Not forgot but he just did it better than Nani ever could. How long has Nani been at the club now?

Someone come in with the stats (DM lol)

I used to hate Ronaldos cheating but he was still class. Nani is just a poor mans version of him. A cloning experiment that went wrong. :D

Anyone not a Utd fan think as highly of him?
 
How many seasons of scoring goals before Ronaldo becomes a consistent goal scorer ?

I think you forgive inconsistency in younger players as they're still learning the game, they become better and play at a consistently higher level after gaining experience.
 
So the fact he made more assists in a season and scored more goals than Giggs has EVER done in a season means he isnt an all time great?

But Giggs is?

The fact that last season he had what would have been considered a "good season" for Giggs at any stage of his career assists and scoring wise means he isnt that good?

So Giggs has been rubbish for the past 20 years then?

I guess you decided to miss out the part where I said he isn't consistent. :rolleyes:

Giggs has been consistent enough to be considered a Utd great.

Nani in my opinion hasn't so far.
 
Not forgot but he just did it better than Nani ever could. How long has Nani been at the club now?

Someone come in with the stats (DM lol)

I used to hate Ronaldos cheating but he was still class. Nani is just a poor mans version of him. A cloning experiment that went wrong. :D

Anyone not a Utd fan think as highly of him?


And thats where your argument falls down.

You cannot compare any player to Ronaldo or Messi fairly.

You need to be comparing Nani to his peers, which have been human wingers such as Valencia, Bale, Malouda, Lennon..........even players like Etherington.

And if you do that, he is better than all of them, by miles.
 
And thats where your argument falls down.

You cannot compare any player to Ronaldo or Messi fairly.

You need to be comparing Nani to his peers, which have been human wingers such as Valencia, Bale, Malouda, Lennon..........even players like Etherington.

And if you do that, he is better than all of them, by miles.

this +1

i think young, nani, valencia and bale are all roughly on the same level though, valencia hasnt looked the same since coming back though, he seems to fear being tackled now.
 
First season:

Nani (joined in 07/08) = 4 goals, 11 assists.
Ronaldo (joined in 03/04) = 6 goals, 4 assists.

Second season:

Nani = 6 goals, 2 assists
Ronaldo = 9 goals, 4 assists

Third season:

Nani = 7 goals, 9 assists
Ronaldo = 12 goals, 7 assists

Fourth season (10/11 for Nani):

Nani = 10 goals, 15 assists
Ronaldo = 23 goals, 30 assists

It was in Cron's fifth season that he went properly mental (43 goals) and hasn't scored less than 30 since. BUT he's also been playing in a more attacking role. Nani isn't massively behind Ronaldo so far, if you take out Ronaldo's fourth season and account for the fact that Ronaldo is supposedly so much better than him. I would be surprised if we dont' see a big up-tick from Nani next season - as remember he spent a lot of this season injured.

By comparison, Valencia has scored 20 goals, 18 assists IN TOTAL in his professional club career to Nani's 36 goals and 39 assists.
 
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I guess you decided to miss out the part where I said he isn't consistent. :rolleyes:

Giggs has been consistent enough to be considered a Utd great.

Nani in my opinion hasn't so far.


And what facts are you basing that on?

What he has actually done or what you think he has done?

He has been with the club 4 years.

For his first two seasons he couldnt displace the best player in the world and had to play out wide left or rotate with Ronaldo, in the 3rd he was in the top 10 assist makers in the league dispite being played out wide left and in his 4th he was the leagues joint most productive player.

So how is he inconsistent?
 
First season:

Nani (joined in 07/08) = 4 goals, 11 assists.
Ronaldo (joined in 03/04) = 6 goals, 4 assists.

Second season:

Nani = 6 goals, 2 assists
Ronaldo = 9 goals, 4 assists

Third season:

Nani = 7 goals, 9 assists
Ronaldo = 12 goals, 7 assists

Fourth season (10/11 for Nani):

Nani = 10 goals, 15 assists
Ronaldo = 23 goals, 30 assists

It was in Cron's fifth season that he went properly mental (43 goals) and hasn't scored less than 30 since. BUT he's also been playing in a more attacking role. Nani isn't massively behind Ronaldo so far, if you take out Ronaldo's fourth season and account for the fact that Ronaldo is supposedly so much better than him. I would be surprised if we dont' see a big up-tick from Nani next season - as remember he spent a lot of this season injured.

if you look at that and analyse it, ronaldo seems to be more goals than assists, nani is more assists than goals.

2 completely different types of player. but teams need both of them, scorers and playmakers.
 
And thats where your argument falls down.

You cannot compare any player to Ronaldo or Messi fairly.

You need to be comparing Nani to his peers, which have been human wingers such as Valencia, Bale, Malouda, Lennon..........even players like Etherington.

And if you do that, he is better than all of them, by miles.

I am not comparing them. Someone else compared them. I just commented that I didn't think they were in the same league.

I don't have an argument, I said I don't rate him. That is my opinion. I don't rate him. If someone offered good money for him then I would sell. I fail to see why you are confusing that with an argument.
 
I am not comparing them. Someone else compared them. I just commented that I didn't think they were in the same league.

I don't have an argument, I said I don't rate him. That is my opinion. I don't rate him. If someone offered good money for him then I would sell. I fail to see why you are confusing that with an argument.


Its the same argument just worded differently.

You dont rate a player who is the joint most productive player in the league this season?

You dont rate a player who so far has provided as many goals and assists over a 4 year period as Ryan Giggs has done over virtually any 4 year period you care to pick from his 20 playing years?

By that reasoning you've never rated Giggs? and you certainly dont rate Valencia and every other winger in the league is a steaming pile of crap by your reasoning.
 
For his first two seasons he couldnt displace the best player in the world and had to play out wide left or rotate with Ronaldo, in the 3rd he was in the top 10 assist makers in the league dispite being played out wide left and in his 4th he was the leagues joint most productive player.

So they aren't the same type but they were fighting for the same position in your words? :p

Wow you guys are getting worked up quite a bit. I only said that I don't rate him as a player and clearly said that was my opinion only.

Did any non Utd fans reply to whether they think he is highly rated in their opinion? Not that I think you would be bias. ;)
 
Nani has the skill, no question its just his decision making that is questionable. The phrase, 'likes to dwell on the ball' springs to mind.

Look at his goal versus city, valencia was never going to make head nor tail out of that kind of chance. To rid ourselves of him now would be a big mistake.

Oh and icebus, yes clearly man utd are weaker without the CTRAIN but when a player wants to leave and someone offers 80million sometimes you have to let go. even if you don't want to.
 
Its the same argument just worded differently.

You dont rate a player who is the joint most productive player in the league this season?

You dont rate a player who so far has provided as many goals and assists over a 4 year period as Ryan Giggs has done over virtually any 4 year period you care to pick from his 20 playing years?

By that reasoning you've never rated Giggs? and you certainly dont rate Valencia and every other winger in the league is a steaming pile of crap by your reasoning.

No, Giggs did it for 20 odd years and can be considered a great for Utd. Nani has been with the club since 2007? And has a few good seasons.

Not saying he won't be a great for Utd but he isn't there yet in my opinion and personally I don't think he will. But again that is just my opinion. Do you see the pattern? :p
 
He tweeted something before that but deleted it a few mins later. It had the hash tag.. #wtfisgoingonattoon :D :D


In transfer news, TalkSport have said Arsenal are lining up at £10m bid for Baines... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha *breath* hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha *breath* hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha :D :D :D :D :D

£10m ? Really? Is Wenger still trying to penny pinch. Baines is worth a damn sight more than 10m, especially in light of Jones being 16m.
 
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