Caporegime
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So your saying then that gigs underperformed for 20.years and that we should celebrate that?
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So they aren't the same type but they were fighting for the same position in your words?
Wow you guys are getting worked up quite a bit. I only said that I don't rate him as a player and clearly said that was my opinion only.
Did any non Utd fans reply to whether they think he is highly rated in their opinion? Not that I think you would be bias.
The stats say he's not as good as Ronaldo, but clearly a lot better than Valencia. Also he's obviously consistent, and more encouragingly getting consistently better every season.
Also, interesting to compare them to Bale:
Bale = 21 goals, 25 assists
Valencia = 20 goals, 18 assists
Nani = 36 goals, 39 assists
So basically Bale is a bit better than Valencia, but not as good as Nani.
Running Man - Yeah I know we couldn't have kept him at that point, but I wonder if we'd treated him a bit differently early in his career if he'd have been different and wanted to stay. Once he became a prima donna it was already too late imo.
Caporegime
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I assume you didn't see the game against Barca where he was fouling people left right and centre then
he played right back did he not? or was that some other game?
im talking about when he now trys to take someone on, one on one down the wing, he seems to hesitate a lot more, in fear of being tackled. not when he doesnt have the ball and is trying to get it back.
I agree he doesn't look the same player, and doesn't seem to run at players with the ball as much.
Caporegime
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seems a mental issue, henrik larsson came back from a worse break better than ever before, if i was fergie i would see how he is in training and if he doesn't look to be getting better ship him out for young/sanchez.
maybe thats why utd want young and sanchez, so they can get rid of valencia.
Well to be fair it's a miracle he played as much as he did last season after the injury so I wouldn't judge him too much just yet, even if it isn't back to his best he was certainly one of the major reasons why we got to the final and won the title in the run in
Oh and no Fabio played RB in the final
Caporegime
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Without appearances, its a bit pointless and tells different stories, though not that different.
However, you need to also pay attention to the difference in numbers.
4 to 6 goals, thats still a 50% increase, 6 to 9, again 50%, 7 to 12, essentially 70%,
10 to 23 130% increase in scoring.
So 4 and 6 look close but, on closer inspection Ronaldo has outscored Nani by 50% at the bare minimum in every season, rising to 130% more before the "crazy" season.
As for Ronaldo being more about goals and Nani more about assists, Ronaldo out assisted Nani in 2 of 4 seasons, and in the breakout 4th season Ronaldo had 100% more assists and 130% more goals.
Nani isn't in the same league, good, easily better than Valencia, but not even close to Ronaldo.
Personally from watching Nani I'd say he rather hit his peak rather than has a lot of room to grow.
Also ignoring a significant fact in that Nani is only about 18 months younger than Ronaldo, but Ronaldo started at Utd 4 seasons earlier. In terms of seasons at the same age..... Ronaldo craps absolutely all over Nani.
As for keeping Ronaldo or selling, how useful would Ronaldo be if they all your oldies left and because you didn't have 80mil extra sitting in the bank while the wages were available you couldn't afford any quality replacements, GK, CM, 2 wingers, and a striker, or Ronaldo.
Ronaldo outscored Messi, did Real win the title or even look close to Barca in quality, no, squad over single player, single player is great if it won't effect the quality of the rest of your squad. 80mil is FAR more important to utd than Ronaldo, no matter how good he is. If your debt should or shouldn't effect how you choose players doesn't matter, football is a business and debt(when its not wiped out by the Royal family) effects EVERY other club in the world when it comes to footballing matters, why should Utd be any different.
However, you need to also pay attention to the difference in numbers.
4 to 6 goals, thats still a 50% increase, 6 to 9, again 50%, 7 to 12, essentially 70%,
10 to 23 130% increase in scoring.
So 4 and 6 look close but, on closer inspection Ronaldo has outscored Nani by 50% at the bare minimum in every season, rising to 130% more before the "crazy" season.
As for Ronaldo being more about goals and Nani more about assists, Ronaldo out assisted Nani in 2 of 4 seasons, and in the breakout 4th season Ronaldo had 100% more assists and 130% more goals.
Nani isn't in the same league, good, easily better than Valencia, but not even close to Ronaldo.
Personally from watching Nani I'd say he rather hit his peak rather than has a lot of room to grow.
Also ignoring a significant fact in that Nani is only about 18 months younger than Ronaldo, but Ronaldo started at Utd 4 seasons earlier. In terms of seasons at the same age..... Ronaldo craps absolutely all over Nani.
As for keeping Ronaldo or selling, how useful would Ronaldo be if they all your oldies left and because you didn't have 80mil extra sitting in the bank while the wages were available you couldn't afford any quality replacements, GK, CM, 2 wingers, and a striker, or Ronaldo.
Ronaldo outscored Messi, did Real win the title or even look close to Barca in quality, no, squad over single player, single player is great if it won't effect the quality of the rest of your squad. 80mil is FAR more important to utd than Ronaldo, no matter how good he is. If your debt should or shouldn't effect how you choose players doesn't matter, football is a business and debt(when its not wiped out by the Royal family) effects EVERY other club in the world when it comes to footballing matters, why should Utd be any different.
To be honest, if Messi was even half as selfish as Ronaldo with the ball he probably would have out scored him too, the amount of times he ended up passing the ball away when he could have taken the shot was astonishing, then again .. it did end up in like 17? assists, or something, so not all bad.
I think i agree with Bloodline. I am not a Man U fan. Over the past 20 years, i would be more worried for my team facing an on-form Giggs in your side, to an on-form Nani.
But it wouldnt make any difference!
Soldato
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Soldato
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Soldato
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Sorry I misunderstood that. Who was that directed at?
Just in case it was me. Then, no. I think you should celebrate Giggs 20 years. I am not sure why someone would suggest he underperformed. I would have loved him at Arsenal
Caporegime
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Well people are saying that Nani has underdelivered / yet if he has posted better numbers than gigs has over the course of 20 years then that does imply that stats wise gigs has underdelivered for 20 years too.
Nani was player of the season for the first 6 months of the season, got injured and then displaced for valencia. Giggs got his have position being a ferries favourite and wasn't often plonked on the wrong wing, except for the days of the lee sharpe crossovers lol.
Nani was player of the season for the first 6 months of the season, got injured and then displaced for valencia. Giggs got his have position being a ferries favourite and wasn't often plonked on the wrong wing, except for the days of the lee sharpe crossovers lol.
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But you can't compare what Nani has produced to what Giggs achieved as it isn't possible yet. I have to agree with DM, I think he has peaked already. Only time will tell. But my opinion is that he is a good player but definitely not a great for Utd and don't think he ever will be.
I have not said once he has under delivered, I think he has delivered to his best ability. I just don't rate that ability that highly. A few good seasons don't make you a great.
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That's an interesting way of looking at the stats, but I'd say not a statistically significant one. That's like saying if Nani scored 1 goal and Ronaldo scored two he's twice as good (which you can't infer from that) but if Nani scored 20 goals and Ronaldo scored 40 you COULD say that. To me the numbers aren't huge enough disparities.
I'm not arguing that Nani is already as good as Ronaldo, I'm just saying he has shown the potential to produce something similar. If, in the next 18 months he doesn't, then I'll hold my hands up.
As for Ronaldo being only one man, that's not how I see it. Ronaldo running at teams completely changes their setup and how they play against us. If they're having to mark Ronaldo out of the game, that leaves more room for Hernandez to spin in behind the back four, for Rooney to pick passes and for our midfield to have passing channels. That's not even to mention how much more service Berbs and Chico would get if Ronaldo was at the club.
It's a moot point really, but I think we would have played differently with him in the side, and that style of play would be more of a threat to teams like Barca.
Caporegime
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Yea but lets remind. a good season is what giggs has. A great season is what Nani has just had, despite only playing in optimal position/condition for what 2/3 of it.
giggs has been wildly inconsistent for his entire career, how do you go from 13 league goals to 1 the next and then since 2000 only score 5 or less for 7 of those seasons. if Nani only gets a similar return next season to this season it will be another great season.
giggs has been wildly inconsistent for his entire career, how do you go from 13 league goals to 1 the next and then since 2000 only score 5 or less for 7 of those seasons. if Nani only gets a similar return next season to this season it will be another great season.
This is the same argument that can be used when he plays O'shea and Valencia on the same wing.
Valencia can be stood up a lot easier than Nani or Giggs or Ronaldo, If Rafeal plays behind him you get an overlapping runner to play in behind the opposing fullback and either drive into the box or whip a cross in, like Evra does on the left.
If O'Shea plays, that doesnt happen, the attack stalls and the ball is played back or possession is turned over.
Its what happened when we sold Ronaldo lost Tevez and signed Berbatov, we lost that ability to keep the opposing fullbacks pinned back, most of the time they managed to keep the fullbacks AND the wide players pinned back because we could exploit either flank at will leaving us with a 5 vs 2 advantage when the ball was coming at us because the other team couldnt commit because we could beat them down both flanks on the counter.
We are only just seeing that come back when Berbatov was dropped and the team moving back to pace down both flanks and the front two.
It might be a low rent copy, but a team with Young on the left Nani on the right, Evra and one of the Twins on the over lap on both sides with Rooney and Hernandez through the middle is going to be pretty hard to handle.
Caporegime
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Well to be fair it's a miracle he played as much as he did last season after the injury so I wouldn't judge him too much just yet, even if it isn't back to his best he was certainly one of the major reasons why we got to the final and won the title in the run in
Oh and no Fabio played RB in the final
fabio started at RB then in the 69th min was subbed for nani.
nani then took valencia's position and valencia dropped back to RB.
valencia was booked in the 79th min 10 mins after playing RB.
so im guessing most of the fouling happened when he switched to RB.
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