** Summer Transfer Window 2011/12 Season Rumours/Signings **

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The Running Man said:
Nani was player of the season for the first 6 months of the season, got injured and then displaced for valencia. Giggs got his have position being a ferries favourite and wasn't often plonked on the wrong wing, except for the days of the lee sharpe crossovers lol.
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Personally I think it was the interplay with Nani and Berbatov, hard to match up all the numbers but I think a lot of goals/assists both produced came from each other. His form/scoring/assisting dropped off more when Berbatov was dropped than Valencia starting if you ask me.

IceBus said:
That's an interesting way of looking at the stats, but I'd say not a statistically significant one. That's like saying if Nani scored 1 goal and Ronaldo scored two he's twice as good (which you can't infer from that) but if Nani scored 20 goals and Ronaldo scored 40 you COULD say that. To me the numbers aren't huge enough disparities.

I'm not arguing that Nani is already as good as Ronaldo, I'm just saying he has shown the potential to produce something similar. If, in the next 18 months he doesn't, then I'll hold my hands up.

As for Ronaldo being only one man, that's not how I see it. Ronaldo running at teams completely changes their setup and how they play against us.
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I think you missed the point slightly on the dates/age of Nani, Ronaldo had his first very good season, 17 goals, 14 assists, in 2006/2007, he then had his first Epic season 4 seasons ago now. Its not about Nani matching Ronaldo in 18 months, Ronaldo 3 seasons ago is WAY above where Nani is now.

Ronaldo was 23 when he had his 42 goal season, Nani is 24 now and had a season with 10 goals, and 18 assists. Age wise Nani would have needed to have his "epic" season 2 seasons ago to be inline with Ronaldo. Ronaldo has had 5 seasons in a row of which 4 were brilliant and one was just really really good. Nani has only just had an even comparable season to that Ronaldo season 5 years ago. If he were 5 years younger than Ronaldo that would put him basically on par with Ronaldo developement/career wise, so its not where Nani should be in 18 months, its where compared to Ronaldo he should have been almost 3 seasons ago.

Thats not to say he's a bad player but, at the same age Ronaldo had already had his 42 goal season AND the quieter 18 goal season afterwards, he was by a country mile the best player in the league for 3 seasons at the same stage Nani is now.

I really can't see Nani developing, at 24 already, into anything near Ronaldo type quality, but very very very few players will hit Ronaldo/Messi levels, nothing wrong with that.
 
Thing is though in the MU-Chelsea game this season, Valencia was ALL OVER Ashley Cole, literally the least effective game I've ever seen him have, couldn't even get out of his own half, and this is a player who used to regularly have Ronaldo in his pocket. And that was with John O'Shea playing.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
fabio started at RB then in the 69th min was subbed for nani.

nani then took valencia's position and valencia dropped back to RB.

valencia was booked in the 79th min 10 mins after playing RB.

so im guessing most of the fouling happened when he switched to RB.
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No, he should have been off by the time he was booked, he was the most persistant fouler on the pitch, and MAscherano was playing, that should tell you something :p

From about 10 mins in till he switched to right back is when he did most of the fouling, probably did 5-6 in the first half and everyone I've seen comment on the game, media, utd fans, neutrals, commentators all said he should have been booked in the first half and again in the second.


Valencia was shockingly poor, not only because he kept fouling and giving them good positions for freekicks, he was doing it when there was no reason to, he was just reckless and stupid and useless going forwards the entire game.
 
The Running Man said:
Yea but lets remind. a good season is what giggs has. A great season is what Nani has just had, despite only playing in optimal position/condition for what 2/3 of it.

giggs has been wildly inconsistent for his entire career, how do you go from 13 league goals to 1 the next and then since 2000 only score 5 or less for 7 of those seasons. if Nani only gets a similar return next season to this season it will be another great season.
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1) Nani also outshoots nearly everyone else in the team - and probably scores less than 10% of the chances, yet that is completely ignored (his assists would be through the roof if he actually tried to do this more of the time). Nani wastes more chances than anyone else has ever done at Utd lol

2) If Giggs made vital moves that created the assist for X player (being on the wing this is entirely possible) - that wouldnt show up anywhere at all, yet its still important in the goal. Nani is rarely generous enough to provide an assist (compared to shooting himself) let alone be a vital cog a little further back in the move

3) I would take Giggs ' heart and soul and the fact he lives and breathes Utd, after less lhan 1/4 of RG's career Nani is already thinking about moving on - "I want to be coached by Mourinho, BUT Im happy at Utd for now") or words to that effect.

Keane had bad games, VDS had bad games, RVN had too - Beckham, Hughes probably even Bobby Charlton did - no one can be at their peak every game but its always the current player thats considered worst of all even though its far from the case (certainly far from as definite as some here are trying to make out anyway)

Nani will be forgotten within 5 years of him leaving (if not sooner - and he will leave at some point, and not just to retirement), but to those who really love Utd, I doubt Giggs (or Scholes) will ever be forgotten


edit - really Nani is more selfish and in for himself, Giggs has always played for the team (can you see Nani ever even attempting RB (or even CM for that matter) - thats why I would always have Giggs instead of the Portuguese
 
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Shooting is very under rated, you can shoot with a vicious shot, cause a parry which drops to someone else to score. LIkewise if someone knows you are willing to shoot they are more likely to run out of position to close down and block the shot, which leaves gaps in behind. If you always pretend to shoot then always pass behind, people won't close you down.

Variety, what Arsenal often lack, is crucial, shooting leads to defences making mistakes, keepers making mistakes and goals happening as a result. Arsenal really rarely shoot from 30 yards anymore, or from outside the box, but that only makes it far easier to back up 10 behind the ball and maintain their organisation. If Arsenal had a long range shooter/goal scorer, when you get 10 men basically inside their box defending, you have another option.

If we shot more often, we'd create more space and make it easier for our "normal" game of walking it into the net.

Messi shoots more than anyone else on his team, as does Ronaldo, as does Nani.

Theres no one way to determine how useful someone is, stats paint part of the picture but a good deal of it is simply seeing the players play and making up your own mind.


Anyway Frank, theres one other way to interpret that quote by Nani, that would be that he wants Mourinho to be the next Utd manager ;) .
 
If Nani didn't shoot so much, I doubt we'd have won the league.

We have too many players who as soon as they get into the final third, just pass sideways or backwards. Nani is always willing to run at the defence and shoot or cross. You need players like him to win matches, and he won many for us this season.
 
Arsenal offer 12m + Denilson for Willian on talkRubbish.

I always take part-exchanges with a massive pinch of salt as they barely ever seem to pan out :p

Maybe Arsenal should buy Gibson for the long shot threat lol
 
Nogimmix said:
Kevin Nolan having a medical at West Ham - be a good signing for us, also Parker will be off.
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Why the **** would we sell Nolan? :confused::rolleyes::confused:

Why doesn't Cashley just sell the whole squad, or just voluntarily put us straight into the championship without bothering next year?

Stunning decision but thats Newcastle these days, I ******* hate my club :(
 
I fear Modric has played his last game in a Spurs shirt. The 22m bid was just to test the water and possibly unsettle Modric, who while I think is happy at the club wants to be in CL and win things, money is secondary.

In the current market it will take nearer 35-40M for Levy to sell. When you consdier Henderson who is carp is "worth" 20M. Not saying Modric is worth such a fee, but since Man City have gone crazy prices have doubled for quality players.
 
Rich_L said:
Arsenal offer 12m + Denilson for Willian on talkRubbish.

I always take part-exchanges with a massive pinch of salt as they barely ever seem to pan out :p

Maybe Arsenal should buy Gibson for the long shot threat lol
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It's ok, we've already got Theo Walcott to keep the ballboys fit thanks.

Agreed about p/x deals, 95% of the time they never come to anything (99% when more than 2 players are involved), it's just media trying to make up stories when you've got an unhappy/unwanted player at a team that is looking to buy.
 
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