Caporegime
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[TW]Sponge;19396822 said:Like I said
lol didnt see your post, but yeah read it now.
** Summer Transfer Window 2011/12 Season Rumours/Signings **
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lol didnt see your post, but yeah read it now.
Soldato
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Jeffers and Wright were big money signings at the time and im not sure he ever recovered.
I suppose the question is would you swap Wenger not spending and bringing on talent with a manager who isnt afraid to spend but may not bring much through?
Arsenal fans probably fancy a change.
Caporegime
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make wenger assistant manager or in charge of reserves or a member of director's board.
ancelotti as new manager
???????????
profit
Soldato
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If/when Wenger stops being Arsenal manager he has to make a clean break from the club, much like Sir Alex will have to, he cant be in the background wile the new man tries to establish a new leadership.
Caporegime
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Wenger doesn'tr bring anyone through, Wilshire, Cole, thats about it for guys who came through our youth setup. All our other young players were bought not at 16 then hitting first team at 20 or so but, a 16 year old who starts in the first team almost immediately, or a 19 year old who starts straight away, etc, etc.
We've bought our entire first team squad bar Wilshire as ready to hit the first team.
WE just buy them in general right on the brink of them having their first good season and their prices sky rocketing.
The one thing Arsenal have done well lately, though rather fortunately through certain clubs overspending, is selling players for good fee's, Ade, Kolo, Hleb, Cole.
Soldato
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Maybe i chose the wrong words there. What i mean is he takes relative unknows and makes them "knowns" albeit with a more limited hit rate lately.
I liked the poster earlier who say "we dont buy stars we make them", ive always felt we did that at Man Utd. By that i mean we tend to buy players at a point when we can expect them to improve and increase in value rather than when they are at their peak.
I love that you make buying players on the cheap right before they have their first good season, and then selling them for huge amounts of money, almost sound like a bad thing 
Heaven forbid Arsenal/Wenger might actually be good at something 
Heaven forbid Arsenal/Wenger might actually be good at something
Caporegime
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By the sounds of it, it was a Quieroz deal gone bad, a guy who got banned as manager for Portugal and is now the Iran manager right now. The reputation he had at Utd was pretty big, hence moving to Portugal, his reputation is in tatters now and Fergie is someone who could do that with a phone call. Frankly I think Quieroz did something ultra dodgey there, used his trusting old boss to make some money off a ridiculous deal.
Something just reeks in that deal and what Quieroz could possibly have seen to tell Fergie he's worth buying unseen for 8mil I don't know.
He's been accused of plenty of dodgey stuff but in so far as Barca, it always sounded like Ronaldinho had a go at Eto'o, and there was a general split in the club between Ronaldinho and Eto'o guys, Eto'o was peeved Ronaldinho got more games while he was generally getting worse and Eto'o was benched despite still having great goal scoring form when he was played.
I always still laugh at the people a few years ago who claimed Torres was the best in the world by far, while completely ignoring Eto'o, who has been ridiculously good for so long now.
I'd absolutely love to have him at Arsenal, but again, rather pointless in our current system unless you stick RVP out on the wing.
Arsenal need him less for his goal scoring, more for the attitude, you need people with a bad attitude who hate losing and know how to win. He's a winner, plain and simple. But again strikers are the last thing Arsenal need.
I agree with you that Wenger tends to buy unknowns, but thats mostly because we nick unknowns from foreign clubs, unless the makers of Championship manager knows how good that youth player from a Spanish/French team is, generally English fans seem oblivious to them
While every English prospect is widely known about, we're also getting more and more sneaky with the "buy a kid before he signs a contract" thing, which got us Fabregas. Frankly had Fabregas signed a contract with Barca, he'd have cost us 10-15mil to then buy him even at that age.
AS you said his hit rate isn't great, and a lot of players are simply over rated because they play at Arsenal, Denilson/Diaby/Song/Sagna playing for a relegated team wouldn't get nearly the amount of credit they have done over the years.
Denilson was SHOCKING exactly as he is now, in his first big season for Arsenal were pundits, media, Arsenal fans were going on and on about how great he was. Good by association, rather than actual ability. The quality of those guys he's been buying has been dramatically worse in the past 6-7 years, but because of who bought them, his reputation from earlier Arsenal years, and the club they play for they are seen as WAY better than they are.
Soldato
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The dad from the Wonder Years (Quieroz) is a top coach and proved that at United as did McClaren to be fair.
That doesnt make them great managers however, and many have been caught out by the difference.
It also doesnt make Quieroz corrupt.
Caporegime
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I love that you make buying players on the cheap right before they have their first good season, and then selling them for huge amounts of money, almost sound like a bad thing
I'd be VERY happy if we did that, we generally don't though. More clubs should do that, its a perfectly viable money making opportunity, we told Bruce I think it was to sign Palacios after we passed on him, had we got him, well he's better than what we've got but, pay for a year, make a profit, easy, why didn't we?
If we'd sold Denilson/Song/Diaby I'd have no issue, but we aren't. I have no issue with signing a couple cheap players, giving them a few appearances against the West Ham's/Brums where the better players carry them, and cash in, thats great business, we have rarely ever done that. The amount of players that leave Arsenal because they are finally fed up, or walk out on a free transfer for the same reason is ludicrous. Flamini, Gilberto, Pires, Vieira/Henry were half the fee's we should have got, Sol Campbell was the worst, under contract " I want to leave, I'll go abroad," "Sure go for free, its not like foreign clubs could buy you or anything" signs a ridiculous wage contract at Pompie on a free transfer.................. epic failure.
Chamakh, clearly never gonna be first team, 4 mil a year wages, sell for 8mil this summer, 4 mil profit, great, keep him another year and sell for 8mil, break even, keep another year and sell for 4 mil, make a 8mil loss, let walk for a free the year after, make a 16mil loss on a guy we never needed.
We used to do great, Overmars, Petit, making a bundle and getting better players as replacements, not anymore.
Soldato
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They are two good examples of buying actual established stars BUT doing it at a point where there was still money to be made on them.
Its not even about turning a profit because you cant put a price on what they give you, however id does mean selling them when they actually have a sell-on value.
If you buy a player for £10m and sell him for £3m i guess it doesnt matter if you can subjectively value his contribution at more than £7m.
Carrick and Giggs arent doubtful at all - even after all the **** printed about him I doubt Giggs will walk away just like that
No word on Evans either (although he could well be 5th choice, and 3rd chice FLB)
3 of those players (Bebe, Obertan and Brown) hardly played anyway - so while it looks a long list from the number of games played only Scholes and VDS and arguably OShea would be missed from the squad (discounting Carrick as I dont believe he is in danger of leaving)
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Soldato
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Evans had great potential and could easily come good (he was seen as a better option than Pique at the time) but id guess the signings of Smalling and Jones would be enough for him to think he didnt have a future with United.
Caporegime
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If a defender isn't sold then a defender has to go on loan, we're almost swimming in them now, especially if the persistent Varane rumours turn out to be anything
Really? He makes PIG look composed on the ball...
Caporegime
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what day is the transfer deadline?
looks like barely nothing has happened so far, and it all tends to heat up in the last day, with man city, chelsea, etc throwing crazy money at everyone.
looks like barely nothing has happened so far, and it all tends to heat up in the last day, with man city, chelsea, etc throwing crazy money at everyone.
Soldato
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Hardly.
Im not going to defend the indefensible but he has been nowhere as bad as people made out, although he had a horrific loss of form. What im saying is he could easily go on to have a good career elsewhere but the signings we have made suggest it wont be with us so best to let him go.
Soldato
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This is when everyone is on holiday. Nothing should really be happening yet!
A dead duck wouldn't make PiG look composed on the ball. Evans is an ok player who has had a not great year. Fergy had a bit of a semi for him so I have no idea what'll happen to him. In the last 3 years he has played less games every year so that probably doesn't bode well. I seem to remember him keeping Drogba quiet on a few occasions though.
As far as the Bebe transfer goes. I can't imagine Fergie playing him ahead of any of the reserves or youth if he hadn't seen something in training. There are plenty of players there who have worked hard to get a chance that has never come.
In addition from some impressions I've read elsewhere he hasn't been doing too badly in the reserves and a nice brace against Wigan required more technique than some homeless tramp who can't actually play football would have. Also popped up with a goal against the Chelsea reserves (fantastic ball from Norwood btw) The couple of admittedly fluky goals he scored for the senior squad were always met with what appeared to be genuine enthusiasm and joy that the kid has got a goal. I can't imagine seasoned pros being happy for a waste of space kid who cant play ball scoring in a game that was already won somehow. We'll see what happens at Besiktas to be honest.
I'm not saying he's the greatest player ever or that he was worth the fee but I just don't believe that Fergie would play the guy in games if he or the coaches didn't see something in training that made him look a better option than the other kids in there.
Soldato
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Obertan looks awesome in the reserves too. It doesnt make him a great player or even a potentially good player.
People look for signs of hope simply because he is our player.
If Obertan or indeed Bebe were playing for the reserve/youth/ any other team of a rival club would you be saying "sign him up" or even "keep an eye out for him"??
Its just hope over expectation.
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