Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [21st - 26th October 2011]

the ' core' of nicky butt, beckham, scholes giggs has been effectively dead for 5-10 years. the problem is that if you remove ronaldo from the equation the chances are we would have won very little over the last few years indeed.

and Fergie didn't want to sign him anyway!
 
But he did sign him - so you won everything, surely that shows that Fergie has faith in both his management staff and playing staff, and took their advice to sign him! And by core, I meant either long-standing players or players that joined and had successful runs in the first team (Rooney, RVN, Ferdinand).

Off the back of that you did win (next to) everything. Again you're trying to give negative reasons as to why you won. I really don't understand! :D If you had dropped out of the race like Liverpool have in recent seasons, then I could somewhat understand but even the Liverpool fans tend to approach their current phase with a sense of optimism and enjoyment! Even when they weren't winning things, but had Fowler, Owen and others, they still took an element of joy out of their situation!

It seems you can have too much of a good thing!
 
The City game just highlighted the fact that we don't have a Silva, Modric, Mata, Gerrard, Lampard, Xavi, Ozil or Fabregas. To an extent, I can understand Fergie putting his faith in Anderson / Carrick / Cleverley / Fletcher, but he really needs to buy someone that can dictate midfield.

Not sure if he has missed the chance, but Sneijder was/is that player.
 
toshj said:
I sometimes wonder if Man Utd supporters ever enjoy supporting them? :p I'm sure supporters of any other team in the country would revel in winning the EPL/their respective league - You're actually making excuses for winning the league you realise?
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You've been a member over 3 years.

Dont remember seeing you in this forum before.

Its only that, If you had been, you'd of seen some of saying it for a good couple of years now.
 
FrankJH said:
Sorry - this is just wrong, Utd could have easily been 2 or 3 down before Rooney was even on the pitch, and its only the luck of the gods that Utd werent
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Is it? Bar the Suarez chance in the first half De Gea didn't have a save to make IIRC before the Gerrard free kick.... which was taken whilst Rooney and Nani were waiting to come on.

FrankJH said:
Its not in hindsight - its been mentioned on here nearly every game (that he has played) the errors made that day. Combine that with Silva's control of the game with Utd's non-existant central midfield and Utd were always going to struggle to contain their fluidity for 90 mins
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Not sure how an non existant midfield and Silva's ability to control the game has any baring on Evans playing or the mistakes he makes :confused:

FrankJH said:
Fair enough I will give you that - but this is exactly why Rio shouldnt be starting games like this - Utd need consistancy and Rio cant be relied upon to be available
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So because Ferdinand has yet to partner Smalling that means he cant be relied upon? Surely the fact he's yet to partner Smalling just goes to show how rarely Vidic is missing. Like I said there's an argument for and against every conceivable centre back partnership that was potentially available yesterday and none are more valid than the other due to the fitness or lack thereof of almost every centre back at the club

FrankJH said:
The more Chicharito plays the more chances (for the TEAM as well as himself) will be attempted, plus his movement always helps Utd keep the ball in the last thrid which is always a benefit. He may well be able to get a decisive goal from the bench - but what about the wasted chances prior to him coming off the bench that he could well have connected with compared to Welbeck missing (or not even connecting with)
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If you've seen the games Hernandez has started this season then you wouldn't be claiming him simply being on the pitch would have created these hypothetical goal scoring situations because he's been extremely anonymous in all but 1 of his starts this season. Dont confuse this with me being on a downer on him as I'm sure his lack of form is simply down to no pre-season but like it or not Welbeck has been in better form this season.

Shamikebab said:
The thing is, he was nowhere near the only player to give away the ball, Welbeck gave it away in our half at one point, Evans was just unlucky that his lead to a goal.

Similarly several players slipped over, Rooney did at one point.

I'm not defending him because yes he played badly but you can't hold him solely responsible.
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That's what I said, while he was a massive idiot for getting sent off the defending in the back 4 was atrocious once we went down to 10 men and it's not like you can blame it down to playing players out of position we had Fletcher at RB (okay technically he is out of position but he's played there plenty of times before and done okay), Smalling, Ferdinand & Evra, that defence should have done far far better with each and every one of City's goals
 
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atpbx said:
You've been a member over 3 years.

Dont remember seeing you in this forum before.

Its only that, If you had been, you'd of seen some of saying it for a good couple of years now.
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Sweet.

Regardless of whether people have been doing it for years, I was merely stating that I find it completely confusing that a team (Man UTD or otherwise) can have so much success yet are chastised by their supporters on such a regular basis. It seems a lot of people don't actually like the team they support!
 
toshj said:
Sweet.

Regardless of whether people have been doing it for years, I was merely stating that I find it completely confusing that a team (Man UTD or otherwise) can have so much success yet are chastised by their supporters on such a regular basis. It seems a lot of people don't actually like the team they support!
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Best thing to do with Nickg/The Running man is ignore him. :)
 
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toshj said:
Sweet.

Regardless of whether people have been doing it for years, I was merely stating that I find it completely confusing that a team (Man UTD or otherwise) can have so much success yet are chastised by their supporters on such a regular basis. It seems a lot of people don't actually like the team they support!
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I cant help you there.

When a club is worth a billion pounds, and it has players earning over 100k a week, and a manager that isnt far off that, substandard perfromances become less tolerable.

Just like at work, if a shelf stacker sticks the wrong prices on a shelf full of beans, its a bit of a **** up.
If the chief buyer buys 3 million quids worth of beans at twice as much as he could have got them from elsewhere, he gets the sack.
Same amount of negligence on the mistake, far greater consequences for the mistake.

United pay top dollar for the manager, and for their players, its not unreasonable to expect that they are some of the best players you can get for that money, with the performances to match.
 
Tom84 said:
Best thing to do with Nickg/The Running man is ignore him. :)
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only if you want to isolate yourself from the truth.

last season we overachieved with the team we had and how we play football. we got quite lucky in the champs league draw with only chelsea - who are s formidable team no doubt- as a major stumbling block on route to the final.
 
The Running Man said:
only if you want to isolate yourself from the truth.

last season we overachieved with the team we had and how we play football. we got quite lucky in the champs league draw with only chelsea - who are s formidable team no doubt- as a major stumbling block on route to the final.
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But being lucky is part and parcel of being a football club/fan. You faced an opposition (19 of them x 2) and completed the season as the top team in the league. What's wrong with that.

I'd also give up on the "we need to be as good as Barcelona!!" effort because it's highly unlikely that'll happen any times soon. I just checked, as I thought he was a lot older, but Iniesta is only 27! Depressing - means I've been playing football manager computer games for far too long :p

The fact that the EPL/FA have introduced the EPPP system in order to beat Spain/Barcelona/Germany/etc. at the likely cost of losing a few League One and League Two clubs, shows that the country is too focused on the Premier League and is danger of losing it's footballing heritage and culture. It's a completely floored system based on a shortsighted ochlocratic ideology focused purely on finances. Although that's another discussion for another time...
 
But being lucky is part and parcel of being a football club/fan. You faced an opposition (19 of them x 2) and completed the season as the top team in the league. What's wrong with that
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Because we havent built on it. Since we won the champions league, we have gone backwards and not forwards in a lot of respects. Maybe we have even stayed static but knowing that chelsea and city have progressed so far, its made us look a little bit worse.

And dont get me wrong we did really well to win the league. i mean REALLY well given how badly we started and played for a large part of the campaign. Everyone put it down to rooney not playing/being out of form. So whats the excuse now?
 
The Running Man said:
Because we havent built on it. Since we won the champions league, we have gone backwards and not forwards in a lot of respects. Maybe we have even stayed static but knowing that chelsea and city have progressed so far, its made us look a little bit worse.

And dont get me wrong we did really well to win the league. i mean REALLY well given how badly we started and played for a large part of the campaign. Everyone put it down to rooney not playing/being out of form. So whats the excuse now?
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You haven't built on it? You've bought the best winger in England (Ashley Young), have picked up two of the best young defenders in Europe (Jones and Smalling), bought the best young goalkeeping prospect in Europe, picked up one of the most promising finishers in the world (Chicharito), etc.

I think patience is what fans need for a (re)building exercise, and to expect wonderful football immediately is a lot to ask - even for the best manager around. I agree that you could do with a world-class central midfielder, but I imagine that by this time next year you'd have picked one up. But your squad is a hell of a lot more progressive than that of Chelsea's. Granted you don't have the budget that City have, but I think you'd do well to match them over the next few years if they carry on playing as they are.
 
Sven sacked by Leicester.

Bit of knee jerk reaction after the Millwall loss as he was doing ok before that. I suppose when you spend that much cash you need immediate success.

Let's hope they go struggle now :D
 
toshj said:
You haven't built on it? You've bought the best winger in England (Ashley Young), have picked up two of the best young defenders in Europe (Jones and Smalling), bought the best young goalkeeping prospect in Europe, picked up one of the most promising finishers in the world (Chicharito), etc.

I think patience is what fans need for a (re)building exercise, and to expect wonderful football immediately is a lot to ask - even for the best manager around. I agree that you could do with a world-class central midfielder, but I imagine that by this time next year you'd have picked one up. But your squad is a hell of a lot more progressive than that of Chelsea's. Granted you don't have the budget that City have, but I think you'd do well to match them over the next few years if they carry on playing as they are.
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Games are won and lost in central midfield, as evidenced by Utd's complete failure on Sunday.
 
Andybtsn said:
Sven sacked by Leicester.

Bit of knee jerk reaction after the Millwall loss as he was doing ok before that. I suppose when you spend that much cash you need immediate success.

Let's hope they go struggle now :D
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What the hell?

They're mid-table, and mid-table in Championship terms is only 3 points off the play-offs. Madness.
 
toshj said:
You haven't built on it? You've bought the best winger in England (Ashley Young), have picked up two of the best young defenders in Europe (Jones and Smalling), bought the best young goalkeeping prospect in Europe, picked up one of the most promising finishers in the world (Chicharito), etc.

I think patience is what fans need for a (re)building exercise, and to expect wonderful football immediately is a lot to ask - even for the best manager around. I agree that you could do with a world-class central midfielder, but I imagine that by this time next year you'd have picked one up. But your squad is a hell of a lot more progressive than that of Chelsea's. Granted you don't have the budget that City have, but I think you'd do well to match them over the next few years if they carry on playing as they are.
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well we had the best in the world perhaps in ronaldo and giggs as well who wasn't 37 at the time. we also had a great cb pairing unfortunately they can't play together often these days and smalling and Jones are decent evans bad but you can't throw them into a game like that and expect to come out well. we have old and young no one in between with experience who can cover adequately. we are constantly playing inexperienced cb at right back or an inexperienced left back there. you don't see city or chelsea doing it as frequently as we have. plus throw in a new goalkeeper and its bound to end badly even i can see that.

i dont blame de gea particularly but his early kicks didn't inspire confidence. our success last year was really built around frugality at the back there isn't a chance for the same coherence and consistency this year which is showing up the un addressed weaknesses we have in midfield.
 
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