Indeed, I would like to see ICT moved up to being a compulsary subject as pretty much everyone is going to get involved with IT at some point in their lives. But leave Computer Studies/Computer Science as an option.
Programming should be part of the school syllabus
- Thread starter AberystwythLAD
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Indeed, I would like to see ICT moved up to being a compulsary subject as pretty much everyone is going to get involved with IT at some point in their lives. But leave Computer Studies/Computer Science as an option.
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I always wished my school did CompSci, we did ICT which for anyone that was remotely interested in computers was so easy.
Basic word processing
Some very basic database stuff with access
More word processing
Play flash games
It was truly awful, and 95% of the school struggled with it.
My experience with young people (im 21 so anyone younger than me) is they have two skills
1. Turn the computer on
2. Open a web browser
EDIT* 3. Go on facebook
It's frightening because when you look at job listings most require basic IT skills, i would say 90% of 18-24's are seriously lacking in basic skills.
Basic word processing
Some very basic database stuff with access
More word processing
Play flash games
It was truly awful, and 95% of the school struggled with it.
My experience with young people (im 21 so anyone younger than me) is they have two skills
1. Turn the computer on
2. Open a web browser
EDIT* 3. Go on facebook
It's frightening because when you look at job listings most require basic IT skills, i would say 90% of 18-24's are seriously lacking in basic skills.
It depends what language it is. Something like C++ has remained virtually unchanged for about 30 years now.
Other languages, C#/Java change (or at least are updated/face-lifted) every few years, when new programming paradigms come in/out of fashion. But the core principles generally remain the same.
That's irrelevant. You teach the fundamentals. And fundamentals can be applied to any language.
I agree programming should be taught but not the reasons given in the OP. Programming languages, and real languages, have nothing in common: it's not easier to learn to program as a child.
However, programming is a valuable skill to teach children for these reasons:
1. It massively helps understand what computers are, and what they can do. This is very important in the modern world.
2. It teaches the important skills of logic and critical thinking in a very practical way. That means that children who struggle with abstract subjects can acquire these skills in a natural fashion.
3. Because programming gives immediate feedback on what you're doing and allows people to make things they can see doing stuff, it should be an engaging subject for many children.
The main obstacles to widespread teaching of programming are a lack of teachers with the skills needed to do so, and a lack of schools with the kind of well equipped computer labs needed.
However, programming is a valuable skill to teach children for these reasons:
1. It massively helps understand what computers are, and what they can do. This is very important in the modern world.
2. It teaches the important skills of logic and critical thinking in a very practical way. That means that children who struggle with abstract subjects can acquire these skills in a natural fashion.
3. Because programming gives immediate feedback on what you're doing and allows people to make things they can see doing stuff, it should be an engaging subject for many children.
The main obstacles to widespread teaching of programming are a lack of teachers with the skills needed to do so, and a lack of schools with the kind of well equipped computer labs needed.
It varies. But, as others have pointed out, the basic fundamentals of programming stay current for a long time. I'd like to see children taught several languages over their time in education so that they can get a grasp of this.
Doesn't make any sense to have it compulsory to kids.
By all means offer it as an A-Level choice (if it doesn't exist already), but there is no point making people do it who have no interest in it, because it's not going to be any use to them.
By all means offer it as an A-Level choice (if it doesn't exist already), but there is no point making people do it who have no interest in it, because it's not going to be any use to them.
Teaching excel etc is virtually pointless due to how much Microfail change the UI each edition.
Most IT courses are very much pointless,I was taught IT for about 5 years at my old school, I don't think I learnt anything after the first year..
Not really, if you are familiar with the basics of how a computer and it's programmes work you develop initiative to figure things you aren't familiar with out. For example, yesterday I showed my mum how to open a DVD with windows media player - something I never done before.
Just to show how confusing computers can be to those who aren't familiar to them, I had to explain to a very confused mother today that the left click was a 'possitive action' whilst the right click 'usually gives options in relation to that action', so she could find options in the future - bless
One of the problems as I see it is that IT is quite a fast moving industry, if you teach programming to school kids by the time they have actually entered the job market 10 years later there is a fair chance that you could have stitched them up by teaching them the 'wrong' language i.e. legacy, or at the very least some of it will no longer be relevant. OK so some would continue it on through higher education and keep up to date but chances are they could have done that anyway without a foundation at school.
Yes, many of the principles are likely to remain the same (relational databases, object-oriented languages etc) but unlike mature subjects like Mathematics, English etc the reality is that the world of software engineering will look slightly different as time moves on.
I mean realistically, if I'd learnt computer programming at school, based on a syllabus created pre-mainstream internet (no HTML, no XML etc) it would have been pretty useless nowadays. In fact I did learn some programming at school come to think of it, BASIC. I doubt my GOSUB skillz are going to land me a programming job somehow.
I was chatting to a guy at work a few months back about this, aged ~40, he said that his daughter had no real concept at all about how computers work behind the scenes, when we were growing up you needed to be able to use the commandline to do things, you would tinker around to get games working etc. Nowadays it is just kids clicking GUIs etc, so they never really learn the initial basics of software. Not saying that is a bad thing overall, making computers more accessible to people, just that potentially it stunts the oldschool inquisitive learning processes we used to have, you know, you'd edit a config file and then your PC wouldn't boot the OS properly, something you could learn from
Yes, many of the principles are likely to remain the same (relational databases, object-oriented languages etc) but unlike mature subjects like Mathematics, English etc the reality is that the world of software engineering will look slightly different as time moves on.
I mean realistically, if I'd learnt computer programming at school, based on a syllabus created pre-mainstream internet (no HTML, no XML etc) it would have been pretty useless nowadays. In fact I did learn some programming at school come to think of it, BASIC. I doubt my GOSUB skillz are going to land me a programming job somehow.
I was chatting to a guy at work a few months back about this, aged ~40, he said that his daughter had no real concept at all about how computers work behind the scenes, when we were growing up you needed to be able to use the commandline to do things, you would tinker around to get games working etc. Nowadays it is just kids clicking GUIs etc, so they never really learn the initial basics of software. Not saying that is a bad thing overall, making computers more accessible to people, just that potentially it stunts the oldschool inquisitive learning processes we used to have, you know, you'd edit a config file and then your PC wouldn't boot the OS properly, something you could learn from
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Soldato
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i'm in exactly the same boat as you AberystwythLAD. absolutely zero programming in school (unless you count an hour with that stupid line making turtle), and now i'm on a comp sci type course and am struggling with the programming, yet i really like it.
as an example, having not programmed anything for the summer holidays, when i had to do my first program in the second year i had to look up how to do an array. thats how little of it was sinking in despite having very good lecturers.
someone around here said it would have the same feel of maths, where everyone would hate it. i completely disagree with that. with a half decent teacher, and possibly group work, it could be just like those problem solving activities that you got to do every now and then in school, but with programming. (this is after they've had a couple of lessons learning some basic functions of course)
as an example, having not programmed anything for the summer holidays, when i had to do my first program in the second year i had to look up how to do an array. thats how little of it was sinking in despite having very good lecturers.
someone around here said it would have the same feel of maths, where everyone would hate it. i completely disagree with that. with a half decent teacher, and possibly group work, it could be just like those problem solving activities that you got to do every now and then in school, but with programming. (this is after they've had a couple of lessons learning some basic functions of course)
I was taught how to use a spreadsheet in 1989, on some now non-existent spreadsheet running on a BBC Model B. The skills I learnt from that are still skills I employ regularly with Excel today.
The UI may change but the basics of spreadsheet usage stay the same.
I think its an element of playing catchup. It's all very well saying schools teach the needed core subjects (english, math, science etc). But you have to take into account what has happened in the past 10, 20 years or so.
We live in a world full of tech, apps and complex web sites etc. Programming is an essential part of this new world, I think children should be in introduced to the basics. As they are with French or German for example. That way they can make their own mind up whever or not they want to pursue it further.
The key to success is making it interesting as mentioned before, eg. "Hey in this class you'll make your own Angry Birds". That's the kind of thing that makes a kid excited.
I think part of the curriculum in today's schools is outdated, for example I did 'Food Tech' which was essentially home economics, how to make a pie. Thats the kind of stuff your parents should be able to show you. I feel these are more 'long term' skills you can work on throughout your childhood, no point 'wasting' time at school when you could be using that time for learning more valuable and essentially rarer skillsets.
We live in a world full of tech, apps and complex web sites etc. Programming is an essential part of this new world, I think children should be in introduced to the basics. As they are with French or German for example. That way they can make their own mind up whever or not they want to pursue it further.
The key to success is making it interesting as mentioned before, eg. "Hey in this class you'll make your own Angry Birds". That's the kind of thing that makes a kid excited.
I think part of the curriculum in today's schools is outdated, for example I did 'Food Tech' which was essentially home economics, how to make a pie. Thats the kind of stuff your parents should be able to show you. I feel these are more 'long term' skills you can work on throughout your childhood, no point 'wasting' time at school when you could be using that time for learning more valuable and essentially rarer skillsets.
Well the only person to blame there is yourself. University is all about self study even during the breaks. I made sure I kept my hand in by doing a couple of small personal projects over the summer.
Soldato
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new gaming PC + holidays + several games ive always wanted to play = no work done
i know the holidays was my own fault, but even during term time i struggled with programming, despite the lecturers being pretty good
WTF?
Technically programming is taught at GCSE level. Some / most aspects of languages are math orientated. Some schools do teach programming in school, in sixth form I was learning Pascal. This was only 4/5 years ago.
It also doesn't matter how young you learn to program, the only way to get good is to:
Read books
Write code
read books
write code
write more code
write even more code
read some more books
write more code.
I work 5 days a week programming and try to do atleast a hour a day on programming on languages I don't know or concepts i'm unsure of.
It also doesn't matter how young you learn to program, the only way to get good is to:
Read books
Write code
read books
write code
write more code
write even more code
read some more books
write more code.
I work 5 days a week programming and try to do atleast a hour a day on programming on languages I don't know or concepts i'm unsure of.
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Depends in your definition of 'programming.' Spreadsheet jockeys will desperately tell you =SUM(X,X) is programming - in which case I programmed like a pro at GCSE level.
Closest I ever got to programming in an educational syllabus was 2 years wasted doing VB.net. Great.
Well I wouldn't class Pascal as a spreadsheet jockey language. VB.net isn't a bad language, it's still quite widely used.