**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

IMO MC isn't the best player in the world. I think he's a great player and much better than Puma and I was referring to the final game on Antiga Shipyard.

I think PvT is just stupid. Protoss has way too many AoE units and sentrys are just so cheap and game-changing when used properly (which isn't that hard). I hope the Terran units in HotS changes this and makes it easier to play on an even footing with Toss as I know it's not just me who believe that they always feel that they're behind in TvP and need to do much more than Toss actually does.
 
Kamwah said:
I think PvT is just stupid. Protoss has way too many AoE units and sentrys are just so cheap and game-changing when used properly (which isn't that hard). I hope the Terran units in HotS changes this and makes it easier to play on an even footing with Toss as I know it's not just me who believe that they always feel that they're behind in TvP and need to do much more than Toss actually does.
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I believe the Battle Hellions are being introduced to give terran an easier time vs large numbers of chargelots. The shredder's not going to be useful in TvP but the warhound might. IIRC it does good damage vs armoured targets (so nearly all protoss units), it's large so doesn't suffer too badly from AOE attacks, and it doesn't have a spell so can't be feedbacked. I foresee pure mech (battle hellion & warhound) as a popular composition in TvP, with vikings added to counter colossi, and/or ghosts to EMP immortals.

In my opinion, the only reason late game TvP is currently imbalanced is because of feedback. It stops the terran being able to use any T3 (thors and battlecruisers) and forces him to stick with bio which is so vulnerable to AOE (which incidentally is also provided by the high templar). If the protoss for some reason didn't have high templar, then both thors and battlecruisers would be very viable. The obvious solution is to either reduce the total energy of these two units (and the proportionally decrease the energy requirement of their spells) or nerf feedback in a similar way to the EMP nerf (make it only affect a maximum of eg. 150 energy).

As of yesterday I've started just doing a 111 all-in every game vs protoss. I don't all-in in the other matchups but I'm so fed up of staying on an even macro footing with the toss and still getting facerolled if I don't end the game before storm tech comes out. So far I've done the 111 ~5 times and haven't lost yet. Think I'll keep doing it until I start to feel a bit dirty.
 
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Kamwah said:
IMO MC isn't the best player in the world. I think he's a great player and much better than Puma and I was referring to the final game on Antiga Shipyard.

I think PvT is just stupid. Protoss has way too many AoE units and sentrys are just so cheap and game-changing when used properly (which isn't that hard). I hope the Terran units in HotS changes this and makes it easier to play on an even footing with Toss as I know it's not just me who believe that they always feel that they're behind in TvP and need to do much more than Toss actually does.
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You're Gold/Plat?

PvT isn't simply A-move. Early game it's incredibly micro intensive for Protoss and losing 1-2 units needlessly can cost you the entire game.

Forcefields are also more difficult to use than they look, and 100 gas isn't cheap. In many situations it comes down to placing good FF or losing the game then and there.

If you're always behind, you need to pick up some new builds. As someone else said, 2 rax expand, 1/1/1 (a variant with hellion drop is effective) are difficult for Protoss to deal with.
 
JIM_BOB7813 said:
PvT isn't simply A-move. Early game it's incredibly micro intensive for Protoss and losing 1-2 units needlessly can cost you the entire game.

Forcefields are also more difficult to use than they look, and 100 gas isn't cheap. In many situations it comes down to placing good FF or losing the game then and there..
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Early game T is just as micro intensive (kiting vs zealots for example). In fact early game in any matchup will clearly depend heavily on micro. But in late game TvP bio vs deathball situations, the protoss can pretty much get away with a-moving, then forgetting about the large majority of his army and just microing a couple of important units (stroms, or colossi for example). Whereas the terran has to micro EVERY unit in their army. We have to shift queue the colossi with our vikings, EMP/snipe high templar, spam EMP across the main blob of the enemy's army, stim and run out from storms as well as kite back from zealots. If the terran screws up and does even one of these steps wrong, or omits it, they will insta-lose the engagement and hence the game assuming even economy. The protoss however can just a-move then from that point on just focus on 1 small group of important units, and never have to even select anything else. Sure there are other micro tricks he can do, such as focusing down vikings, or blink micro, but the point is that he can still easily win the engagement without doing them. For terran the insane micro is ESSENTIAL. For protoss, it's an optional extra. The cause of this is basically the fact that terran has to use squishy tier 1 units against tier 3 protoss AOE/splash units due to all our t3 being rendered useless by feedback which is what I was whining about in my previous post.

I believe that TvP is pretty balanced late game if you look at pro replays since the terran player has enough skill to micro well, but for the lower leagues it's really difficult for the terran as his APM and mouse accuracy is rarely good enough to pull it off successfully. Hopefully HOTS will address this.

EDIT: also force fields are NOT difficult. The only 'difficulty' is ensuring the sentries are near the front of your army so there's no delay between you casting the force fields, and them actually appearing. That said, I'm not too bothered by forcefields as I can see they are essential for the survival of protoss in so many situations. If the toss has a lot of sentries then it's up to the terran to either EMP them, or bring medivacs and lift units backwards when they try to trap you. (this is ridiculously satisfying as it means their zealots are rendered useless by their own forcefields).
 
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JIM_BOB7813 said:
You're Gold/Plat?

PvT isn't simply A-move. Early game it's incredibly micro intensive for Protoss and losing 1-2 units needlessly can cost you the entire game.

Forcefields are also more difficult to use than they look, and 100 gas isn't cheap. In many situations it comes down to placing good FF or losing the game then and there.

If you're always behind, you need to pick up some new builds. As someone else said, 2 rax expand, 1/1/1 (a variant with hellion drop is effective) are difficult for Protoss to deal with.
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I'm masters on both of my accounts (NA/EU) and on my EU I play Terran and my NA I play Protoss.
I know very well how to play both and how much easier it is for Protoss in that matchup. Storms and Collosi with good FF placement wrecks all kinds of MMM and it's variants (vikings+ghosts).
I know Terran have a lot of builds that can do tons of damage (BF Hellion drop is a sure thing if not scouted) but I shouldn't need to kill half a line of probes to deal with a toss.
 
Kamwah said:
I'm masters on both of my accounts (NA/EU) and on my EU I play Terran and my NA I play Protoss.
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Where do you live? I just ask because I'm interested in getting an account on a foreign server but I'm cautious due to lag issues. It'd be cool to get a Korean account but I imagine the lag from the UK would be too bad for things like banshee micro.
 
SheepBeast said:
Where do you live? I just ask because I'm interested in getting an account on a foreign server but I'm cautious due to lag issues. It'd be cool to get a Korean account but I imagine the lag from the UK would be too bad for things like banshee micro.
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I heard EU > US is fine for latency, and US > Korea is fine too, but EU > Korea is unplayable.
 
Swi1ch said:
I heard EU > US is fine for latency, and US > Korea is fine too, but EU > Korea is unplayable.
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But US > Korea has the whole of the pacific to cross whereas EU > Korea is closer... is it just that US > Korea has better cable bandwidth?

EDIT: also do you know how I'd go about getting a US account?
 
SheepBeast said:
Where do you live? I just ask because I'm interested in getting an account on a foreign server but I'm cautious due to lag issues. It'd be cool to get a Korean account but I imagine the lag from the UK would be too bad for things like banshee micro.
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I'm in Surbiton (Kingston Upon Thames AKA Greater London). EU to US has no visible lag and i've never experienced any problems. I've never tried Korea but I've pinged the Korean Bnet server before and my latency was very high (when it goes through China it becomes stupidly high)

To get extra accounts you need more Bnet accounts because the maximum amount of SC2 Licenses on a Bnet account is 1. I have 2 gmail addresses so that's how I got two accounts.
 
Kamwah said:
I'm in Surbiton (Kingston Upon Thames AKA Greater London). EU to US has no visible lag and i've never experienced any problems. I've never tried Korea but I've pinged the Korean Bnet server before and my latency was very high (when it goes through China it becomes stupidly high)

To get extra accounts you need more Bnet accounts because the maximum amount of SC2 Licenses on a Bnet account is 1. I have 2 gmail addresses so that's how I got two accounts.
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I've set up my NA account now, thanks :D I have it linked to the same battlenet account as my EU one though. All I did was go on battlenet and go to the page where you buy games. Then I set my region to North America. Bought the game. Then I installed it to a different directory to my Eu installation. When it was installing it came up with a warning saying my replays etc in my documents folder would be overwritten, which I said "ok" to, however all those files are still intact and my replays are available for both of my accounts. I have 2 icons on my desktop, one for EU and one for NA. I log in with the same e-mail and password to both of them, but have a different character on each. My replays for EU only appear when I'm logged into my EU account, and likewise for NA. So in other words, it works perfectly :)

On another note, I've found the players on the NA server to be a joke. I'm currently rank 2 diamond after 15 games, and have a 50% win rate against masters people so I may even be promoted soon. On my EU account I am platinum, albeit I am way overdue for a promotion (~70% win rate against diamonds so far). I'm nowhere near high diamond though and I've never ever been matched against a masters player let alone beaten one.

It's pretty funny because my mechanics and multitasking are pretty terrible and my macro is very inconsistent (I'll stay at ~100 minerals for ages macroing like a beast, then forget to produce anything for like a minute and build up 1500 and have to throw down 4 barracks). I don't cheese or all-in either (except sometimes 111 SCV all-in vs protoss because they are a gay race). I guess people are right when they say KR > EU > NA in terms of difficulty.

...because the maximum amount of SC2 Licenses on a Bnet account is 1.
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The licenses are linked to the region. So you can only have a maximum of 1 EU license, or a maximum of 1 NA one, but there's nothing stopping you having 1 of each because they are counted separately. I may even add a taiwanese license sometime if I feel like putting up with the lag to try and pwn some koreans (more likely get pwned by them)
 
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Wow that's weird, when I tried to put 2 accounts onto 1 Bnet account it wouldn't let me =/ Maybe they've changed it since then. O well not that it matters seeing as I have two emails anyway.

Yea the NA players are a joke, if you ever say it on a SC2 forum (like teamliquid.net where they're mostly americans) they'll argue it to hell about there being no difference but there so is. If I come across a grand master on my NA account I win a lot of the time but If I see a grandmaster on my EU account then I get raped like a inmate.
 
Alex74 said:
:D Want a couple of practice games some time? Might be able to point you in the right directoin vs P.
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Yeah sure why not, Been playing quite well today, 1 win off top 8 so rather happy with that! Last game I had was 23 mins long and I had 77 scv's lol on 5 bases :D

Although I'm sure that was pure fluke and it'll never happen again! :p :rolleyes:
 
Kamwah said:
Wow that's weird, when I tried to put 2 accounts onto 1 Bnet account it wouldn't let me =/ Maybe they've changed it since then. O well not that it matters seeing as I have two emails anyway.

Yea the NA players are a joke, if you ever say it on a SC2 forum (like teamliquid.net where they're mostly americans) they'll argue it to hell about there being no difference but there so is. If I come across a grand master on my NA account I win a lot of the time but If I see a grandmaster on my EU account then I get raped like a inmate.
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iirc from reading on TL. You can do it but you need to email / ring blizz support and they merge your accounts or something.
 
nex20 said:
iirc from reading on TL. You can do it but you need to email / ring blizz support and they merge your accounts or something.
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Nope. I explained what I did in post #11052, I didn't have to ring or e-mail anyone. The only thing which took time was downloading and installing the NA client which has to be done to a different directory to your EU one otherwise it'll overwrite.
 
Kamwah said:
Nah, just Muta,Ling,Bling.

TvZ and TvT are my best matchups but I ****ing hate Banelings. They're so damn stupid.
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Given you're in master surely your marine split is fairly decent? I don't find banelings to be much of a problem tbh. I pre-split my marines and spread my tanks out at maybe half a screen's distance from the edge of the creep. Scan and stim forward about 4 marines to kill off tumours. Wait for creep to recede, move tanks forward a bit then rinse and repeat. Doing this means that when the ling bling ball inevitably rolls in, I don't have to spend all my APM on my marines, I can focus mostly on the tanks, targeting groups of banelings, and my marines require only limited micro.
 
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