Discussing Cultural Difference is Taboo?

[troops]

The only predudice in this country is being a white English male.
And to say there are more poor black people in Britain than white is absolute tosh, even the law of averages says thats just so wrong.

Multiculturalism on average is a big fail, foriegners wanting their own "communities" instead of integrating turning were they live into the third world country they came from.

Take London for example the white English/Brit is now an ethnic minorty there.
The once great "wembley" is surrounded and might as well be a modern day Roukes drift.

 

[Tefal]

Let me begin by saying that two of my closest friends are from Pakistan, another is from Ghana, and a fourth has dual nationality in England and Japan. My brother is married to a girl from Mumbai. I am not a racist. I am not xenophobic. I am absolutely, one hundred percent, pro multiculturalism. I think a diverse Britain is a far more interesting Britain. In business, I see the benefits of a multicultural workforce on a daily basis. I wouldn’t have this island any other way. The fact that I have to start a thread this way is a sign of the times, I feel.

I'm going to take a shot in the dark here but I'm betting each of those people you mentioned would be considered "middle class" at the very least the low end of it.

am I right?

 

[semi-pro waster]

Whatever,
If there are proportionally more black people in jail then a black person is more likely to be the one responsible for a crime against me.
There is nothing prejudicial about looking at statistics and deciding who is more likely to do X, I don't have to care about the 'why' if I'm only interested in the 'what'.

I'd suggest that's a somewhat flawed way of thinking about it - if you pick a small data set then extrapolate it out you're liable to get skewed results. In the population of my household currently it's 100% degree educated - does that mean you're more likely to find everyone outside it to also be degree educated?

You're also ignoring the absolute size of populations there, if there are say 2m out of 60m with red hair and 10k out of 40k who are left handed then are you more likely to run into someone with red hair or someone who is left handed?

Take London for example the white English/Brit is now an ethnic minorty there.

No, they are not. You might be right if you picked a selected borough or neighbourhood but as a total they aren't.

 

[Danthus]

No, they are not. You might be right if you picked a selected borough or neighbourhood but as a total they aren't.

Which begs the question, is this trend going to spread and if so how far?

 

[Xordium]

Whatever,
If there are proportionally more black people in jail then a black person is more likely to be the one responsible for a crime against me.
There is nothing prejudicial about looking at statistics and deciding who is more likely to do X, I don't have to care about the 'why' if I'm only interested in the 'what'

Actually there is. You are looking at a correlated factor not the causative factor. That you are attributing it as the causative shows your bias.

You say you are not interested in the 'why' but then started off with the premise of 'why' being 'black'. If you are only interested in the 'what' then I suggest you avoid a few more things than just 'black' people. May I suggest you avoid anyone with a Y chromosome, people on lower income, anyone who does not hold good educational achievement, people with mental health problems, ex-armed forces, people between the ages of 18 and 60, etc ...

But you only picked one aspect ... that speaks volumes.

 

[Marmot]

I'm going to take a shot in the dark here but I'm betting each of those people you mentioned would be considered "middle class" at the very least the low end of it.

am I right?

You're right, but what does that have to do with anything?

 

[Tyron]

Can the OP please illustrate why England and it's people benefit from multiculturalism, do we need it, would we be better off without it? And why we are Europe's door step?

Cheers

 

[phil675]

Multiculturalism and immigration are not the same things. I like new people and cultures but we do have a serious problem with immigration. We should have a system like Australia that doesn't just let anybody in, unfortunately I have a feeling we are locked in to European immigration thanks to the EU.

What's going to happen when economic refugees start turning up from Greece, Portugal and Spain (assuming worst case scenario over the next 5 years)?

 

[bitslice]

But you only picked one aspect ... that speaks volumes.

Oh please, you are trying to infer racism when all I did was select a risk group and used the easiest mechanism to identify them, in this case their colour.
Because poor people fit into the same group then I can use their dress to select another sub-group.
Beyond that the groups don't really self select by all living in the same place so they are not easily avoided.

Why don't you go live in a tower block estate before I accuse you of not liking black people Same thing.

 

[bitslice]

I'd suggest that's a somewhat flawed way of thinking about it - if you pick a small data set then extrapolate it out you're liable to get skewed results.

I was looking at who is in jail, surely if I want to know who is in a criminal risk group then that is a pretty comprehensive data set to look at?

Propotionally more black people (7 times) in jail means to me that it is sensible to avoid black areas.
Because there is a correlation with poverty I could equally just avoid poor areas, but it's harder to tell a poor person from a black person.

 

[estebanrey]

I don't know if you understand multiculturalism to mean the same as I do.

Which is the main problem I find when discussing this issue. Far too many people confuse multiculturalism with multi-ethnicity. You can be sonmeone who hates multiculturalism whilst not being racist and conversely it's technically possible that you can like multiculturalism and still be a racist.

America, would be an example that is very mutli-racial but not as multicultural as we are at the same time.

 

[estebanrey]

Ridiculous. What about the possibility that there are more white judges, that black people are more likely to face prejudices that place them in a socio economic situation that can make crime more attractive, or that police might be more likely to stop and arrest a black man?

Are white judges inherently racist then? Or are you saying black judges are more likely to let a 'brother' off?

Either way, it's funny how you have to use racism to try and negate racism.

 

[estebanrey]

Propotionally more black people (7 times) in jail means to me that it is sensible to avoid black areas.
Because there is a correlation with poverty I could equally just avoid poor areas, but it's harder to tell a poor person from a black person.

But if it's the 'areas' you're trying to avoid then surely it's easier to distinguish a poor area from a rich area than a "black area" from a white one?

What does a "black area" look like by the way in your world, is every other shop a fried chicken outlet and the constant sound of steel drums being played?

 

[Pate]

Could someone explain better this whole socio economic explanation for blacks making up the higher percentages of criminals.

If blacks still make up a minority percentage as a whole, then surely by logic of there being FAR FAR more white people that there would be far more white poor people, and thus it should still be more white criminals by basis of there being more white people?

Or are white people as a whole, less poor?

 

[krooton]

Could someone explain better this whole socio economic explanation for blacks making up the higher percentages of criminals.

If blacks still make up a minority percentage as a whole, then surely by logic of there being FAR FAR more white people that there would be far more white poor people, and thus it should still be more white criminals by basis of there being more white people?

Or are white people as a whole, less poor?

At a guess (I have no stats), a larger percentage of black people are poor than the percentage of white people that are pool, ignoring the total volume of black and white people.

 

[estebanrey]

ignore

 

[bitslice]

But if it's the 'areas' you're trying to avoid then surely it's easier to distinguish a poor area from a rich area than a "black area" from a white one?

What does a "black area" look like by the way in your world, is every other shop a fried chicken outlet and the constant sound of steel drums being played?

Poor areas often back onto richer areas, the exception is that poor rural areas still don't have many black people.

A black area, Brixton perhaps with a visibly greater proportion of black people?
Except you weren't looking for a serious answer were you, ...you are still trying to pretend that avoiding risk is inherently racist.

 

[estebanrey]

Poor areas often back onto richer areas

Whereas 'black areas' are segregated and miles from anywhere with big signs from every direction warning you that you are approaching a 'black area'?

A black area, Brixton perhaps with a visibly greater proportion of black people?

If your intention is to avoid 'black areas', how can you ascertain a visual estimation of it's population unless you go there in the first place? If your only guide to whether somewhere is a black area or not is how many black people you see there, it's too late to 'avoid' it.

Unless you spend time on the net looking up the racial statistic breakdowns from the census on each area you plan to visit in a day before you set off?

What would be the cut off point before you decided not to pass through? 20% black, 30% 60%?

Except you weren't looking for a serious answer were you, ...still trying to pretend that avoiding risk is inherently racist.

Not at all, as you'd see from the above I took issue with the suggestion from someone else that black people make up a higher percentage of prisons because judges are mainly white and racist.

The problem I have with what you're saying is you do seem to be putting the emphasis on risk down solely to skin colour and dismissing other factors like wealth as if they are by-products when it's the other way way around generally.

Had you said you tend to avoid poor areas which in turn means you avoid areas with higher than average black populations I wouldn't have an issue with that (other than the exaggerated paranoia you seem to have about leaving the house in general), but the implication I get is that you wouldn't avoid a poor white area, only a poor black one despite the fact the chances of getting mugged are probably the same on both.

 

[Xordium]

Oh please, you are trying to infer racism when all I did was select a risk group and used the easiest mechanism to identify them, in this case their colour.
Because poor people fit into the same group then I can use their dress to select another sub-group.
Beyond that the groups don't really self select by all living in the same place so they are not easily avoided.

Why don't you go live in a tower block estate before I accuse you of not liking black people Same thing.

Again you chose colour as an obviously distinguishing characteristic and overlook the gender of the person which is equally distinguishing or age another equally distinguishing characteristic. Therefore, I don't need to infer racism - you are establishing your credentials there with no help required from me.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Which begs the question, is this trend going to spread and if so how far?

And the answer is that I'm not sure, I'm not certain anyone is.

I was looking at who is in jail, surely if I want to know who is in a criminal risk group then that is a pretty comprehensive data set to look at?

Propotionally more black people (7 times) in jail means to me that it is sensible to avoid black areas.
Because there is a correlation with poverty I could equally just avoid poor areas, but it's harder to tell a poor person from a black person.

Looking at who is in jail simply tells you who was caught at that particular point in time if you're being pedantic. You've also got the question of how you're defining crimes - some crimes are much less likely to be given custodial sentences, violent crimes ("blue collar") tend to be more likely to attract a custodial sentence than the "white collar" crimes - do you just want to avoid being threatened with menaces or do you want to avoid absolute crime?

I've not looked it up at the moment but for the purposes of this are you stating that it is 7x more black people in prison as a proportion of the population or 7x more black people than of any other colour grouping?