There is a guy using a hose pipe in his garden

estebanrey · 28 May 2012 at 16:22

Glaucus said:
look at date of your article (2006),
Look at date of legislation amendment 2010, your giving bad advice out and are plain wrong.

OK I stand corrected, here is an updated article

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/apr/04/hosepipe-ban

I'm still not sure how legally enforceable these bans are though, do we have any test cases on people being fined for filling a paddling pool for example? According to the Richard Benyon, Environment Minister, the Government is not expecting people to be prosecuted under the new rules so what's the actual point of giving them more powers and expecting them not to be used?

IMO, with privatisation should have come the inability to fine people under the law. It seems the water companies now get to enjoy the profits of being private enterprise whilst being able to issue fines likes a state institution.

Glaucus · 28 May 2012 at 16:31

They don't get to issue fines, fines are issued by courts.

I'm sure people have been convicted under the old laws, but I wouldn't know where to look such things up. New ones well it hasn't been going long.

estebanrey · 28 May 2012 at 16:38

Glaucus said:
They don't get to issue fines, fines are issued by courts.

...baed on what though? Presumably the Water Companies' advice? That pretty much makes them the on a par with the police to use an analogy.

Glaucus · 28 May 2012 at 16:38

Based on are law system. Evidence. The water companies are not the ones in power, they can not issue fines. They aren't like the police at all.

nemtizz · 28 May 2012 at 16:42

Zefan said:
You should take a picture of him and then threaten to dob him in if he doesn't give you a few hundred quid.

Better than a £1000 fine

Fake edit: I would not actually do this, I'm not a ****. Well I am, but I wouldn't do this.

RomanNose · 28 May 2012 at 16:47

Wouldn't care, Domestic use only accounts for about 10% of all water use.

Vanquish-Storm · 28 May 2012 at 16:49

estebanrey said:
...baed on what though? Presumably the Water Companies' advice? That pretty much makes them the on a par with the police to use an analogy.

I was looking for an answer to this also. Who decides upon the rules/laws and then who decides when they come into action?

Do these water companies get fined when their old outdated pipes burst?

Can the water companies not spend a percentage of their profits in improving reservoirs or other forms of water storage? Its not like the UK is the driest place on Earth. Two weeks of Sun and we have a water shortage is some places. :confused:

Glaucus · 28 May 2012 at 16:52

Vanquish-Storm said:
I was looking for an answer to this also. Who decides upon the rules/laws and then who decides when they come into action?

Do these water companies get fined when their old outdated pipes burst?

Can the water companies not spend a percentage of their profits in improving reservoirs or other forms of water storage? Its not like the UK is the driest place on Earth. Two weeks of Sun and we have a water shortage is some places.

water companies are just as liable.
In fact they have probably been proscuted more than individuals.
Same act, different section.

On 1 July 2008 Severn Trent Water Ltd ("STW") was fined £2 million by HHJ Roberts QC at the Old Bailey. STW had on an earlier occasion pleaded guilty to two offences under section 207 of the Water Industry Act 1991 of knowingly or recklessly providing false information to its regulator, Ofwat, in relation to the reporting of its leakage figures in 2001 and 2002. The case was brought by the Serious Fraud Office

robj20 · 28 May 2012 at 16:57

Whats the legal definition of a hose pipe?

Glaucus · 28 May 2012 at 16:59

robj20 said:
Whats the legal definition of a hose pipe?

A reference to a hosepipe includes anything designed, adapted or used for the same purpose as a hosepipe (Section 76A(5) of the Water Industry Act 1991).

robj20 · 28 May 2012 at 17:03

But wouldnt that include all your piping in the house, "a means of transporting water"

Glaucus · 28 May 2012 at 17:09

robj20 said:
But wouldnt that include all your piping in the house, "a means of transporting water"

No, because transporting water to your bath or kitchen sink is not included in the act.

however if you we rigged your pipe work to act as a hose pipe and to carry out one of the tasks within the act, then yes it would.

robj20 · 28 May 2012 at 17:11

So how is using a bucket okay for watering the garden, its doing the same task.

Jay794 · 28 May 2012 at 17:11

Big Woop! so what? keep yourself to yourself, he might have some powerful friends

4T5 · 28 May 2012 at 17:13

If he doesn't water his lawn the smell from the dead bodies of his previous neighbour who complained will start to smell.

Glaucus · 28 May 2012 at 17:17

robj20 said:
So how is using a bucket okay for watering the garden, its doing the same task.

The idea is it uses far less water, the reasons it's ok, is it isn't against the law.

robj20 · 28 May 2012 at 17:20

So if you could prove it doesnt use any more water they wouldnt have a case.
Seems so many holes in it, be interesting to see if and what for, people have been fined over it.

Glaucus · 28 May 2012 at 17:21

robj20 said:
So if you could prove it doesnt use any more water they wouldnt have a case.
Seems so many holes in it, be interesting to see if and what for, people have been fined over it.

Of course they would have a case, the law isn't based on how much water you use.

estebanrey · 28 May 2012 at 17:22

Glaucus said:
Based on are law system. Evidence. The water companies are not the ones in power, they can not issue fines. They aren't like the police at all.

Not sure you've understood the analogy.

My point was ultimately all fines are issued by the courts (Yes I know the police have some powers to offer fines as a means to not clog up the judicial system but the principle of UK law is that only a court can issue a fine).

But the courts aren't psychic, someone presumably has to apply to a court to get a fine issued which would be the water company (which is the same as the CPS or police applying to a court to fine you for other illegal activities). When you report someone for violating the ban, you don't ring up the local magistrate do you?

Glaucus · 28 May 2012 at 17:23

No, but courts still require evidence. Making your oin null and void.

Police can issue on the spot fines, but you don't have toaccept it and can choose court if you wish.