Are 'Lifeskills' still taught in secondary schools today?

[Squark]

Finished in 2001 - same as the above, has some drugs/sex-ed stuff, but nothing useful for life.

I can't believe we don't teach how to balance a home budget, write a CV/covering letter, how to do an interview, cooking (real cooking), changing plugs, lights, basic gardening, basic electronics, how to put up a shelf, build a flat-pack, basic problem solving, logic, how to handle rejection, anger management, deal with depression, the costs of living alone (bill management etc) basic ethics, empathy & politics.

I agree with some of them, but they aren't really test-able, which governments seem to like to do to children. They test everything but learn nothing.

 

[No1newts]

Schools, colleges and universities teach you how to pass a test and NOTHING (beyond theory) that is of any use in the real world. It's a sad state of affairs but leavers from education are worse than useless for the first year in employment (I know I was and anyone I have ever hired was too, you see it again and again) they need a year to get into the real world way of operating.

God knows what they can do about it though as schools are all assessed on test scores sp will never change.

 

[elmarko]

Why do you need to learn budgeting in school? Learning about maths/Excel is enough.

Evidently not, as otherwise people would not be so catastrophically bad at it.

Why do you need to have lessons on CVs and covering letters? Learning about the English language, and being able to ask your parents/teachers for help should be enough.

If you had spent any time looking over CV's as some of us here have, you would know that certain skills are clearly lacking.

You assume that just because you would think to ask parents/teachers - everybody would - this clearly isn't the case.

Do you really need interview lessons? Again, if unsure, people can ask for guidance.

You assume that just because you would think to ask parents/teachers - everybody would - this clearly isn't the case (otherwise the standard would be higher)

I'd say changing plugs/lights are just something people can learn at home, or via the internet.

Firstly, what about children with parents who lack these skills, or with a single mother parent? - not everybody get's taught this stuff at home (I did, but hardly any of the friends did).

Basic gardening, electronics, and putting up a shelf = lol.

Are you saying that the entire population already has this knowledge?, as I'm fairly certain they don't.

I'm sorry to sound patronising, but you do understand that not everybody had the same upbringing as you did.

Problem solving and logic is stuff that can be done through normal teaching methods, or stuff which can be developed at home/in your spare time (chilling with my maternal grandfather helped me on that front, more than my wonderful education, just by playing chess, etc, in my early years.)

That's all good & well for you, but what about children without grandparents to teach them chess?.

Again, you do understand your own personal experience may not be representative of the wider population.

Also, we didn't get taught logic at school as part of our "general education".

Empathy's not really something you can teach.

I disagree, a correct understanding of the world is the basis of a functional empathy - also not everybody has good parents or positive role models.

Ethics and politics I can kinda agree with, but I don't think formal lessons are necessary - in my school, for general studies we had an hour a week where we'd be in our forms and discuss anything we wanted, then an hour a week where a random guest lecturer would come in and talk about something interesting (the University of Plymouth was down the road, so we'd have random people from there.) That basically fuelled debates we had, rather than teaching us anything. TBH, most of my development in those areas was done outside of my schooling (reading papers, books, debates, etc.)

My school didn't have that, it's obviously not a fixed part of the curriculum.

Essentially, most of these skills are things the family should be doing, or are things which people can work out themselves (especially with the existance of Google...!)

Children shouldn't be expected to have to Google information that should be taught at school.

While I agree that getting parents to teach this kind of stuff would be better, not everybody has skilled parents or even ones which are inclined to teach them anything.

I agree with some of them, but they aren't really test-able, which governments seem to like to do to children. They test everything but learn nothing.

I have to agree here, testing doesn't improve results.

A known side effect of enforced testing/exams is that it destroys a child's natural curiosity - it makes learning (which all children tend to enjoy until school) a chore - our modern education system also destroys a child's ability for problem solving (as a side effect of curtailing lateral/divergent thinking)

Sir Ken Robinson did a very interesting talk with the RSA on the subject, definitely worth watching.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

 

[scrlk]

We did a half-course called 'Preparation for Working Life' - it involved an exam (e.g. spot the hazards) and coursework, which was a covering letter, CV and 'interview tips'.

Best question in the exam was this:

Slightly changed each year (the scenario and the people).

 

[elmarko]

No, I think there are better ways of learning such skills, and schooling should focus on academic topics.

Not everybody has alternatives.

You're assuming that because hardly any of your friends were, hardly anyone is?

Not at all, just that in certain parts of the country the generalisations you make are factually wrong.

No, just that it isn't something which is worth doing in school. If someone wants to play about in a garden, they can simply read instructions on packets of seeds/look in a book.

Because everybody in the world has a garden.

I know they didn't. The point is that people can learn from equivalent sources, if they so wish. If I hadn't learnt about things from x, I could have learnt them from y.

They need to be taught how to find the information, or at least shown how to learn for themselves - something which if it isn't taught at home, needs to be taught elsewhere.

You didn't get taught to think through things logically, etc, throughout school?

In short, no.

The point is that 'ethics' is such a massive, general thing that it's hard to have ethics classes in school. They'd take up too much time. Instead, examine those ideas in history, English literature, religious studies, etc.

The focus on those subjects (in modern education) are the facts surrounding them (to later be tested on) - not the ethics involved within them.

It's not, but having general studies as part of the curriculum wouldn't make everyone have that experience, it still relies on good teachers. So making it part of the curriculum isn't a magic bullet.

What a pointless statement - of course good teachers are required, the point I was making that it isn't standard & isn't taught everywhere.

Something which you implied had value, isn't taught for everyone.

A) I contest the idea it should all be taught in school.

School attendance is mandatory in the UK, having good parents who teach things outside of school isn't.

B) Google's very useful.

Because every child in the UK has a PC at home.

C) Reading about stuff is an entirely legitimate way to learn (which Google can help facilitate, when paired with an interested mind).

And?, my point is that it can't be replied on, as not all children will utilise it.

You say the formal testing, etc, kills enthusiasm. Surely allowing people to learn themselves, or at least outside schooling, helps stop that?

Did I say we have to start testing them constantly regarding the subjects mentioned?

If the parents are that bad, the kids are lost, anyway (ask any teacher that!)

That's not true, some kids have done very well due to the efforts of fantastic teachers despite having terrible parents.

Hoipefully that's worked... I'm posting from my phone!

It certainly did.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

Is it that we shouldn't rely on schools to teach these things?,

If so, will you be willing to relinquish the right to complain about the fallout from children who don't get taught this kind of stuff at home (who end up as stupid uneducated unethical criminals?).

Are you denying that we even have a problem with children leaving school with no real skills - (academic, practical, ethical or problem solving)?

 

[Streeteh]

The school I work at spend an hour a week for a term (so roughly 12 hours), preparing year 10 students for work experience. A huge part of that is helping them construct a good CV, it's a very important and also quite challenging skill imo.

 

[vicisthebest]

my dyslexic step son was told grammar and punctuation didnt matter in any of his exams lol

That's a different thing though, for two reasons: 1) your stepson, having a recognised condition, would get special consideration anyway, and 2) spelling, punctuation and grammar aren't important in most tests (other than English language, where SPG is assessed, but not worth very many) - because, for example in a History exam, you're testing their knowledge of historical facts, whether they can make judgements based on source material, etc. Not whether they can spell Reichtag correctly.

This doesn't mean though, that if your stepson were to write a CV without any help, and it was full of SPG mistakes, that his CV would be well received.

If the parents are that bad, the kids are lost, anyway (ask any teacher that!)

I think I would be in the wrong profession if I agreed with you that some children are no-hopers, but you are correct to a certain extent, if parents are of below average intelligence and/or are not interested in their child's education (IE, it's somewhere to send the kids while they stay in bed till 1pm then spend the afternoon watching Loose Women), therefore the child gets no help at home or intellectual stimulation, then those children are more likely to struggle at school. It doesn't always follow though.

 

[Leprechaun312]

Today I was presented with the CV & covering letter from a local 19 year old looking for work.

Unfortunately we have no vacancies at current, nor do we have any roles that would match his particular skill set. So I sent a reply letter to politely let him know and also commend him for his efforts to find work in the current economic climate (handing his letter in in person) and also another letter detailing some improvements to his CV & cover letter to make himself more attractive & desirable to potential future employers. In a bid to give him something positive to take away from the experience rather than another rejection/dead end.

Now I have only just turned 23 myself but my CV at 19 years old was no where near as 'lacking' (poorly punctuated, messy, full of waffle and badly presented) as his and it made me wonder if they are still teaching what used to be called 'Lifeskills'?. Where for one period per week you would study something useful as a class. We once had a bank employee come and explain budgeting (give us some simple exercises to do etc), we would discuss other pressing ethical and economic issues and generally be taught things that actually had some use and practical application in the real world. I did also ponder that if this example was indicative of the general standard of CV's from the younger generation it could make sense as to why they are struggling to find employment.

I know there is more focus on application writing during sixth form with UCAS & university but we were given some guidance whilst in secondary education which proved to be quite useful.

So I guess this is a question for some of our younger members that are currently in education or for any of those members that can remember their secondary education!

BennyC

yeah sort of in N ireland it's called LLW and tbh it is pretty rubbish when you do it for the first three years of secondary school before your GCSEs you don't learn anything other than don't try drugs and don't drink alcohol it's bad but at GCSE they do explain how to write a CV and if you do LLW for GCSE then yes you do a full year on employability and that is all about getting a job and does include writing a CV

 

[shoes]

Too busy teaching 'Travel & Tourism', 'Health & Beauty', 'Performing Arts', religious education and PE to worry about anything that may actually be useful to the pupil or society would be my guess.

 

[Keod2]

Im 18 and when I went to high school we had one lesson every 2 weeks called PSHE. All they seemed to do during PSHE was preach about contraception...and once in year 11 they tried teaching the class how to use an ATM machine. It was a massive waste of time in my opinion. Not once did we get told how to format a CV or taught interview techniques, which to be fair is MUCH more useful than how to use an ATM which all of us knew how to use anyway...

 

[alx]

Finished in 2001 - same as the above, has some drugs/sex-ed stuff, but nothing useful for life.

I can't believe we don't teach how to balance a home budget, write a CV/covering letter, how to do an interview, cooking (real cooking), changing plugs, lights, basic gardening, basic electronics, how to put up a shelf, build a flat-pack, basic problem solving, logic, how to handle rejection, anger management, deal with depression, the costs of living alone (bill management etc) basic ethics, empathy & politics.

I would say (at least) half of those could/should be taught by parents to their kids. I know I learnt a lot of that stuff from my parents.

Seems now days a significant proportion of parents want the state to bring up their children....

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

There is no excuse for having a porrly written CV.
If you lack the skills to write well then get someone else to check it for you!
I did not have life skills taught in school, but anyone should be able of writing a CV. If not then no wonder they're unemployed.

 

[RomanNose]

There is no excuse for having a porrly written CV.
If you lack the skills to write well then get someone else to check it for you!
I did not have life skills taught in school, but anyone should be able of writing a CV. If not then no wonder they're unemployed.

OK so you might be able to write one but for example I have no clue what the best techniques are.
Am I supposed to use bullet points, am I supposed to put down 1 week work experience? These questions can't be answered without having some knowledge on the subject.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

OK so you might be able to write one but for example I have no clue what the best techniques are.
Am I supposed to use bullet points, am I supposed to put down 1 week work experience? These questions can't be answered without having some knowledge on the subject.

Just go with whatever you feel like. There is no standardised way of writing a CV so just make it look as good as possible.
What you put on there depends on how good it is. If you are young then 1 week work experience is vital. If you are a 40 year old senior manager then nobody cares about the 1 week work experience.
Now I have got my degree I simply state that I have X number of GCSEs grades A-C, but when I was applying for my placement year job I put them all on there.

 

[RomanNose]

Just go with whatever you feel like. There is no standardised way of writing a CV so just make it look as good as possible.
What you put on there depends on how good it is. If you are young then 1 week work experience is vital. If you are a 40 year old senior manager then nobody cares about the 1 week work experience.

And how would I know how to make it look as good as possible without having lessons?

 

[Keod2]

And how would I know how to make it look as good as possible without having lessons?

I agree, I had to ask my dad about it, but if my parents didn't care / know how to format a CV like I imagine some peoples parents are like, then you would find yourself in abit of a muddle.

 

[RomanNose]

I agree, I had to ask my dad about it, but if my parents didn't care / know how to format a CV like I imagine some peoples parents are like, then you would find yourself in abit of a muddle.

Both of my parents haven't had to change their CV in over 20 years so they really don't have a clue.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

And how would I know how to make it look as good as possible without having lessons?

Just ask a friend or family member.
You really do not need 'lessons' on how to write a CV. Just spend fifteen minutes on google finding a template, write the CV then get it checked by someone you has an opinion that you value.

 

[RomanNose]

Just ask a friend or family member.
You really do not need 'lessons' on how to write a CV. Just spend fifteen minutes on google finding a template, write the CV then get it checked by someone you has an opinion that you value.

Would be so much better to teach the proper technique to students, even with using a template there are still many areas you can go wrong on.

 

[One]

I was taught to read and write by my father when I was about 3, when I had a reading age of 8. He's no teacher, and when I was older I found it very difficult to learn from him, but at that age he taught me at about 5am every day before he went to work when I couldn't sleep. I'm not saying this is impressive, because I know lots of people who could read and write at a very young age, but if a 3 year old can do it, then surely someone in secondary school should be able to.

I wasn't defending the people that can't I was simply suggesting that you will not wake up one day at the age of 16 ready to leave school with all these things learnt. Like you, I was also taught by my parents before I entered education. I like to think I have a good grasp of current proper English, however if my only education on the subject had been at school and I didn't have the jump-start from my home life it could be a different story today.