What is the Point of Veganism?

[KNiVES]

You will never be that guy without access to copious amounts of Dianabol, Testostirone injections and Deca Durabolin either?

I don't think not being able to compete in bodybuilding is a good enough reason to write off veganism. There are reasons, but that isn't one of them

Schwarzenegger took a small number of dianabol when it was legal, not the 'copious' amounts you so claim. When it was banned once the health dangers had become known, he stopped altogether. Schwarzenegger has never had testosterone injections nor has there been any evidence of nandrolone use.

Your claim that he took copious amounts of drugs and steroids is completely untrue and an insult to the finest bodybuilder in history who got where he is through hard work.

That, and a diet heavy in meat. None of that sissy vegetarian rabbit food!

 

[MrMoonX]

Im a vegetarian, I dont do it for any reason to do with animals, I enjoy the diet and ive lost loads of weight doing it since I was a fat teenager, the nutrition argument stuff is utter **** , I get more than enough nutrition to run marathons from a vegetarian diet, who wants to be a fat body builder when you can be a runner

 

[uniQ]

Vegans - What? Won't eat cheese or milk. Sorry but show me this cheese animal that has died to give me this block of cheddar.

What is the point? No animals die to give us dairy products.

I rest my case.

I'm neither vegan or vegetarian but I don't drink milk or eat cheese.

 

[uniQ]

Vegetarian? You will never be this guy.

Meat eater? Still unlikely to ever be this guy.

 

[semi-pro waster]

I'm pretty sure a lot of vegetarians are malnourished, or at extreme risk of it due to their diet, much more so for vegans. A lot of vegans seem to have the Ghandi physique going on, stick thin arms and legs and yet have quite a belly. It might be a case of they don't know how to have a balanced diet as a vegan or vegetarian however thus the malnutrition, but it seems to be a trend I've noticed.

Although you could counter that point by saying that often vegetarians or vegans put rather more thought into their diets than the majority of omnivores so in percentage terms they're probably actually less likely to suffer malnutrition or have an unbalanced diet.

However it's a pretty daft argument either way, you can be perfectly healthy as a vegetarian or a vegan just as you can be perfectly healthy as an omnivore or a pescetarian. With any diet choice an element of moderation in what you eat and a variety of foodstuffs along with a generally healthy lifestyle will be the most conducive to overall good health.

One thing i've always wondered, If we didn't milk cows what would happen? I mean they don't always have calves to feed.

Do you mean what would happen if we didn't milk the cows that we (via demands on the farming industry) have kept in an artificially long milk producing state? If that's the question then it's likely there would be some problems for the cows because they're producing the milk even though they're not feeding calves or having it otherwise expressed.

If the milk industry was to be on the wane then presumably there'd be a tailing off period whereby production was eased down and these cows would be allowed to finish their production cycle or perhaps more likely they'd be sent for slaughter - unfortunately though beef cows and milk cows aren't really interchangeable as far as I understand it so if they were slaughtered they're not likely to be used for meat.

 

[hurfdurf]

Schwarzenegger took a small number of dianabol when it was legal, not the 'copious' amounts you so claim. When it was banned once the health dangers had become known, he stopped altogether. Schwarzenegger has never had testosterone injections nor has there been any evidence of nandrolone use.

Your claim that he took copious amounts of drugs and steroids is completely untrue and an insult to the finest bodybuilder in history who got where he is through hard work.

That, and a diet heavy in meat. None of that sissy vegetarian rabbit food!

Source?

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

Soy beans gram for gram have more protein than meat iirc

Indeed as does Quorn, a big lol at people who think a meat diet is healthier than a vegetarian or pescaterian one!

For many people, red meat is a primary source of protein and fat. But meat has been associated with increased risk for diabetes, cardiovascular disease and some cancers in other studies, the researchers noted.

"We should move to a more plant-based diet," said lead researcher Dr. Frank Hu, a professor of nutrition and epidemiology at the Harvard School of Public Health. "This can substantially reduce the risk of chronic disease and the risk of premature death."

For the study, Hu's team collected data on more than 37,600 men who took part in the Health Professionals Follow-up Study and more than 83,600 women in the Nurses' Health Study.

Over 28 years, almost 24,000 of the study participants died. Nearly 6,000 of the deaths were from cardiovascular disease and more than 9,000 were from cancer, the researchers found.

Hu's group calculated that for every daily serving of red meat, the risk of dying increased 12 percent. Broken down further, the researchers found the risk was 13 percent for a serving of unprocessed red meat and 20 percent for processed red meat.

One daily serving of unprocessed red meat (about the size of a deck of cards) was associated with a 13% increased risk of mortality, and one daily serving of processed red meat (one hot dog or two slices of bacon) was associated with a 20% increased risk.

“This study provides clear evidence that regular consumption of red meat, especially processed meat, contributes substantially to premature death,” said Hu.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/pr...red-meat-cardiovascular-cancer-mortality.html
http://healthland.time.com/2012/03/...-steak-the-deadly-dangers-of-eating-red-meat/

 

[KNiVES]

Source?

No, the onus is on you to prove he's taken drugs. Do you assume someone is guilty until proven innocent?

Meat eater? Still unlikely to ever be this guy.

That's a terrible argument. Nowhere did I say eating meat will result in that, just that being a vegetarian won't.

Indeed as does Quorn, a big lol at people who think a meat diet is healthier than a vegetarian or pescaterian one!

Congratulations on referencing a survey that specifically looks at red and processed meat.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

Congratulations on referencing a survey that specifically looks at red and processed meat.

UN processed red meat is still bad for you, and I think you will find most meat eaters love their steak and beef burgers!

Just showing the ridiculous claims being made here that vegetarian diet isn't healthy! I think I'll take the research and claims from a Harvard Professor rather than some armchair experts on O.C's

 

[The Halk]

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/pr...red-meat-cardiovascular-cancer-mortality.html
http://healthland.time.com/2012/03/...-steak-the-deadly-dangers-of-eating-red-meat/

Correlation does not prove causation. His research proves nothing and he's used it to make misleading claims which the media have run with.

The fact that he then went on to make claims about life expectancy based on the amount of servings of meat eaten makes me doubt it even more.

If you actually look at Frank Hu's research you see that all of the factors we consider to be risk factors increase as red meat consumption increases.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

Correlation does not prove causation. His research proves nothing and he's used it to make misleading claims which the media have run with.

The fact that he then went on to make claims about life expectancy based on the amount of servings of meat eaten makes me doubt it even more.

If you actually look at Frank Hu's research you see that all of the factors we consider to be risk factors increase as red meat consumption increases.

But it's not just his research is it!

A recent 10-year study, the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC), found that people who ate red meat every day were a third more likely to develop colon cancer than those who didn’t. The culprits could be two compounds called hemoglobin and myoglobin, which are found in all red meat. Researchers theorize that the compounds react with chemicals in the gut to create cancer-causing agents.

But hey you keep fooling yourself that Lamb, Beef, Pork are healthy for you if you eat it regularly!

 

[MrMoonX]

actually cant beat lentil and mushroom burgers on a BBQ, I will make you all some

 

[Evoss]

Vegetarians are just as pathetic as vegans, we have evolved eating meat and now all of a sudden people become wet and pedantic and decide not to eat meat.

We have eaten meat for 1000s of years, it was proven that eating read meat aided in evolving.

Also, why do they say meat is bad and then say eating fish is fine, flippin hypocrites

 

[Angilion]

Well that doesnt really stand as a vegetarian/vegan diet is an unnatural diet for the human body. Its not what we have evolved to process and without the protein, mineral and energy rich cooked meats we eat our bodies do not function optimally. Admittedly with vitamin supplements you can get around some of the issues involved with not eating meat but ultimately you make yourself into a weaker human. Also most vegetarians I know would not even touch meat if they hand reared it themselves and watched it die of natural causes, which quite frankly means that they dont do it for the reasons they state.

There is only one essential nutrient for humans that can't be obtained purely from plants - B12. Vegans and vegetarians who don't eat any animal products must supplement with B12 or suffer a slow degeneration (your body shuffles B12 about very efficiently and it can be years before B12 deficiency has major effects, which means your degeneration will be too slow for you to notice easily until it's bad). You need to either eat dung from the right kinds of animals (i.e. that has B12 in it) or, rather more appealingly, take a supplement. B12 supplements can be vegan - it's a waste product of some bacteria.

But that's it. Just one vitamin. If you know what you're doing and take some care, you can get an excellent purely plant diet and "function optimally", as you put it. You can be an athlete. You can even be a bodybuilder (so yes, you were wrong about that too). It's not that hard in a wealthy modern society, i.e. a place where you can easily buy a wide variety of edible plants. It's true that meat provides all the essential amino acids(*) for humans in the right proportions and plants don't, but different plants contain them in different amounts so it's a matter of eating different plants to get them all in the right amounts. It's a similar story with other essential nutrients. Calcium and iron are issues on a purely plant diet, but you can get enough if you eat the right plants. It's a bit more complicated than eating meat, but not much if you know what you're doing.




* "protein" is a misleading term. There are lots of different proteins and we don't directly use any of the proteins we eat. Our body cuts proteins up into the amino acids they're made from and builds our own proteins from those. It's recycling, not reusing.

 

[Scuzi]

You do realise all vegans aren't PETA warriors? They're not all in it for ethical reasons. Some people choose the diet or lifestyle for health reasons, some choose it for the hell of it and some choose it as a personal challenge.

Since when did all the fat neckbeards on OcUK become armchair nutritionists?

 

[StriderX]

Vegetarians are just as pathetic as vegans, we have evolved eating meat and now all of a sudden people become wet and pedantic and decide not to eat meat.

We have eaten meat for 1000s of years, it was proven that eating read meat aided in evolving.

Also, why do they say meat is bad and then say eating fish is fine, flippin hypocrites

Pointless, evolution is now hampered by a few simple things, medicine, social apathy and the fact that we are now at the very top of the food chain.

We aren't going anywhere naturally so it's a rather dull argument nowadays, might as well let people do as they so please, science has been substituted for it anyway.

 

[uniQ]

That's a terrible argument. Nowhere did I say eating meat will result in that, just that being a vegetarian won't.

Touché. Using an extreme example of the body was a terrible argument against vegetarians.

Besides your just wrong anyway. Quite a few examples of bodybuilders are vegetarian/vegan inc Mr Universe winning Albert Eckles.

http://www.bodybuilders.com//albert.htm

Or Bill Pearl who was awarded an Arnie lifetime achievement award for his impact on body building etc.

 

[Illusion]

I've been thinking to myself for a while, what is the point of being vegan.

Vegetarians I can get, they don't want animals to suffer blah blah.

Vegans - What? Won't eat cheese or milk. Sorry but show me this cheese animal that has died to give me this block of cheddar. Show me this animal that has milk as its blood that has had to die to provide me with this pint of milk.

What is the point? No animals die to give us dairy products.

I rest my case.

My sister is vegan and I asked her this question. She said that although animals don't die to give milk etc they are still abused. Apparently cows are re-impregnated constantly to keep them producing milk which she finds unfair.

She also used honey being stolen from
Bees as an example which I found quite amusing

I could never live on the diet she does!

 

[fire_munki]

I'm not vegan but at home I'm pretty much a vegtabalist, not for ethical reasons or because I don't like meat (I do, I love a nice steak) but because the price of quality meat is so much more than faux meat and vegtables.
I know I could eat some dodgy farm food chicken breasts that cost pence but good knows how much water and junk is in them.

 

[FTM]

most of britains upland areas used for grazing beef cattle and sheep wouldnt be suitable to be turned over to arable farming anyway

dairy herds around my grans farm were grazed in lower pastures close to the farm so they could move back and forth (they were not not permanently kept in barns) but the sheep and the beef cattle were grazing on low level fells which were only good for rough grasses, ferns and gorse, you couldnt cultivate it let alone grow a cereal crop.