Just what IS it about Islam that makes them violent?

[div0]

People have been abusing religious beliefs for their own political/financial gains for decades/centuries/millennia.

It's less to do with the particular religion itself and more the fact that there are people with sufficient power in those areas who are trying to to drive their own agenda.

 

[dowie]

Not wanting to be an Islamic apologist but it is a mix of things - different culture, history, lack of education etc... Yes Muslims have some silly/ignorant beliefs (as do all religious people tbh...) but an angry mob getting worked up into a frenzy is a human thing not just an Islamic thing - we used to burn witches, Catholics, round up jews etc... even today in the UK grown men will engage in mob violence against others who choose to support a different football team. Its not hard to see that people can get wound up in some passionate defence of something that is absurd - whether its a mythical sky pixie they're still stupid enough to believe in or simply a team of people who kick a ball around on a Saturday.

 

[Richdog]

I still think it's limited to a few Muslims comparatively. However, in that culture, the religion is embedded deeply into their culture and "part of who they are", and as such things that are seemingly "anti" Islam, for some reason, are also seen as a reproach on their culture/identity.

It's not a few comparatively, any look at the religious rampages over the last 15 years will tell you that it is thousands and thousands and thousands of people who in this day and age still commit terrible acts in the name of religion. In Pakistan it is a significant proportion due to the level of education and quality of life, in the Middle East a good proportion of populations can be roused into a rabble in the name of religion and what they take offence to.

A "few comparatively" would be the odd beating up of some guy in the name of religion now and then. Muslim populations in Asia and the Middle-East seem adept at mass-scale rampages.

Not wanting to be an Islamic apologist but it is a mix of things - different culture, history, lack of education etc... Yes Muslims have some silly/ignorant beliefs (as do all religious people tbh...) but an angry mob getting worked up into a frenzy is a human thing not just an Islamic thing - we used to burn witches, Catholics, round up jews etc... even today grown men will engage in mob violence against others who choose to support a different football team.

Not the same. It's not just a human thing if the guiding force behind said atrocities IS religious belief. Mob violence in football is completely different, and imo you cannot compare the medieval times when Christians burned witches to the situation nowadays. The civilised world has moved on significantly since then and in the Western worls religious beliefs and superstition no longer dominate society in anywhere near the same way.

 

[bhavv]

And the last time a Buddhist ever burned down a mosque, or a Jainist ever killed a person was ....

 

[Richdog]

And the last time a Buddhist ever burned down a mosque, or a Jainist ever killed a person was ....

On the same scale, and as frequently?

 

[bhavv]

On the same scale, and as frequently?

According to the far left apologists yes you are correct and you get an A+ in liberal brainwashing studies.

And when was the last time Christians went on muderous rampages over blasphemous cartoons like Family guy?

 

[dowie]

Not the same. It's not a human thing if the guiding force behind it IS religious belief. Mob violence in football is completely different.

the underlying reason for them self identifying with a particular group and being anti another group is irrelevant - whether its Muslim vs Buddhist or Arsenal vs Tottenham its just boils down to basic tribal violence... In the instance in the OP Religion happens to be the cause... replace Muslims with Maoists and Bangladesh with Burma and you'll see the same sort of thing - the underlying rival identities don't require a 'religious' belief or even beliefs... just something to identify two different groups as rivals.

 

[Biohazard]

I don't think islam is to blame.

Individual choice is, essentially.

 

[wannabedamned]

Some people are mental, that includes some Muslims.

I cant help but think its a structure thing. For instance, Muslim people in England who have been brought up in a societies with our law\government and structure are generally normal.

Over in the east, structure\government is somewhat lax. Infact the laws are somewhat harsh\nasty and reenforced by government. If the government are allowed to get away with a lot of the punishments, why wouldnt some of their people grow up with somewhat warped views on what is and isnt allowed.

Another problem is the way faith\culture and government all follow the same principal. It is my belief that religion should have no place in law.

Dishing out punishments for breaking rules set by religion is just stupid

 

[Richdog]

the underlying reason for them self identifying with a particular group and being anti another group is irrelevant - whether its Muslim vs Buddhist or Arsenal vs Tottenham its just boils down to basic tribal violence... In the instance in the OP Religion happens to be the cause... replace Muslims with Maoists and Bangladesh with Burma and you'll see the same sort of thing - the underlying rival identities don't require a 'religious' belief or even beliefs... just something to identify two different groups as rivals.

How is it "irrelevant" what the underlying reason is, what a load of rubbish. If you take a group of religious fanatic Muslims and a group of Arsenal thugs, how many of the Arsenal weekend-warriors do you think would be willing (especially nowadays with how watered-down hooliganism actually is) to burn someone alive? Stone someone to death? Willingly committing suicide in the name of their club and killing women and chlidren in the process? Sure, a small proportion would be up for punching or stabbing someone severely that may result in death, but most would balk and never even dream of the other stuff. It is another level of action.

You are comparing two wholly different motivators, two wholly different cultures and societies, two wholly different mindsets, and your argument putting them on an equal footing but just with different hobbies thus doesn't hold any water imo.

 

[Freefaller]

It's not a few comparatively, any look at the religious rampages over the last 15 years will tell you that it is thousands and thousands and thousands of people who in this day and age still commit terrible acts in the name of religion. In Pakistan it is a significant proportion due to the level of education and quality of life, in the Middle East a good proportion of populations can be roused into a rabble in the name of religion and what they take offence to.

A "few comparatively" would be the odd beating up of some guy in the name of religion now and then. Muslim populations in Asia and the Middle-East seem adept at mass-scale rampages.

It is still a small number when you realise there are over 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. With religion being used as an excuse. It's a shame that our evolution hasn't catered for tolerance across all religions, and it's a shame that religion has to be used as an excuse - but it is.

The only reason these groups are "large" is because the population is mainly Islamic and as such it's easy to say "all Muslims create problems"... It's like saying "Men mug people..." - well generally yes, more men mug people than women... does that mean that all men mug people? No. Or all Catholics are paedophiles... No. Just because a few of them are - highlighting a specific detail adds more sensationalism and interest.

It's a case of using statistics to "prove" a point - where there is no point to be proved.

This population is heavily Muslim... they use an excuse in the name of Islam to do an attrocity, however, let us be sensible, it is in fact just a group of thugs, who happened to be Muslim who just wanted to behave like thugs.

I will accept that in this particular instance as well as others, it could have been a religiously fuelled attack... however, generalising is such a poor way of forming arguments, hence my post.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

It's a shame that our evolution hasn't catered for tolerance across all religions, and it's a shame that religion has to be used as an excuse - but it is.

Given that religion holds back societies and peoples and draws legitimacy from an (in the majority) un or undereducated crown, religion should (and is) be dying out due to social evolution and improvement.

 

[bhavv]

Given that religion holds back societies and peoples and draws legitimacy from an (in the majority) un or undereducated crown, religion should (and is) be dying out due to social evolution and improvement.

And something like 70%+ of people believe in religion in the UK because we are undereducated and unevolved? Well, looking at Mr Cameron and thinking that so many people voted for him, yes we must be.

Turkey is a very modernized, well educated and secular country, yet 97%+ of the people there are Muslims. This seems to contradict your hypothesis. Italy and Ireland too, but with a Christian majority in those countries.

 

[dowie]

How is it "irrelevant" what the underlying reason is, what a load of rubbish. If you take a group of religious fanatic Muslims and a group of Arsenal thugs, how many of the Arsenal weekend-warriors do you think would be willing (especially nowadays with how watered-down hooliganism actually is) to burn someone alive? Stone someone to death? Willingly committing suicide in the name of their club and killing women and chlidren in the process?

that's irrelevant - the common denominator is the fact they're prepared to engage in senseless violence against others who belong to a different 'group/tribe' - this isn't unique to 'Muslims' or 'Religion' in general but its a fundamentally human quality... obviously football hooligans in the UK aren't burning down villages, you're completely missing the point there - the underlying motivator - engaging in violence against a different 'tribe' is still the same even if the levels of resulting violence are different. Replace Muslims with Maoists and you'll find similar instances of violence.... Or look at the violent incidents that took place in the UK before we became more civilised... it doesn't require religion or Islam for it to take place - Islam is just an identifier and a catalyst (via its belief system).

 

[PermaBanned]

Ah, so is it now politically incorrect to discuss their actions?

No, as usual it's unfair to tar an entire group based on the acts of a few.

 

[bhavv]

that's irrelevant - the common denominator is the fact they're prepared to engage in senseless violence against others who belong to a different 'group/tribe' - this isn't unique to 'Muslims' or 'Religion' in general but its a fundamentally human quality... obviously football hooligans in the UK aren't burning down villages, you're completely missing the point there - the underlying motivator - engaging in violence against a different 'tribe' is still the same. Replace Muslims with Maoists and you'll find similar instances of violence.... Or look at the violent incidents that took place in the UK before we became more civilised.

So again, what proportion of Budhists and Jainists exactly possess this flaw of human quality compared to Islam?

 

[dowie]

And something like 70%+ of people believe in religion in the UK because we are undereducated and unevolved? Well, looking at Mr Cameron and thinking that so many people voted for him, yes we must be.

Turkey is a very modernized, well educated and secular country, yet 97%+ of the people there are Muslims. This seems to contradict your hypothesis. Italy and Ireland too, but with a Christian majority in those countries.

LOL Turkey...

Look at the Scandinavian nations - the vast majority aren't religious and it is dying out in Europe... Its fairly inevitable that as we make more and more advances in science and the level of education in society rises that more people will give up silly backwards beliefs in mythical beings who'd apparently created the world etc.. by 'magic'.

 

[bhavv]

No, as usual it's unfair to tar an entire group based on the acts of a few.

With the number of global issues we have with the same issue and severity as that in the OP from within the same culture and religious belief, I find it highly innacurate to refer to the number of acts as a few.

 

[bhavv]

LOL Turkey...

Look at the Scandinavian nations - the vast majority aren't religious and it is dying out in Europe... Its fairly inevitable that as we make more and more advances in science and the level of education in society rises that more people will give up silly backwards beliefs in mythical beings who'd apparently created the world etc.. by 'magic'.

Scandinavian nations are simply secular from their own culture. Such countries have rarely during their socio economic development had a strong religious population. Funny how you choose to completely ignore USA / UK / Ireland / Turkey / Vatican (whatever that is, I just hear it has something to do with the pope).

 

[dowie]

So again, what proportion of Budhists and Jainists exactly possess this flaw of human quality compared to Islam?

Slightly flawed question - the potential for this sort of tribal violence is present in all of us. How it manifests itself is a bit more situation specific and down to outside influences etc..

Not so long ago a large portion of the German nation were indoctrinated into hatred against Jewish people resulting in millions of deaths. Identifying another group as being 'different' and engaging in violence against them has happened across all human history and isn't unique to any particular religion/race.