Sunday Trading Laws

Rroff said:
I assume your just playing devils advocate Glaucus or otherwise don't actually realise where your arguement runs... otherwise you might want to think further ahead to where it leads... a race to the bottom does no one any favors.
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No, I'm not playing devils advocate, I've worked in retail I also now work weekends in a different industry. There is zero reason for this law, as showen by not one single, even half reasonable reason for it to exist. In fact there was only one job I've had that I haven't work weekends. Its also not a rush to the bottom at all. Why would it be a rush to the bottom? What's so bad about it?
 
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Rroff said:
Religious reasons aside I dislike the erroding of the traditional weekend - I like there being something to "break up" the week and a bit more chance to slow down for a day or two - if every day is uniformly the same life gets very boring.
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That's not the world we live in anymore.
Many people in loads of different industries have to have their days off mid-week.

Retail needs customers and weekends are the busiest time for custom.

I don't see why retail workers are any different to any other industry. If you really want a traditional weekend, work in a different job.
 
Weekends are when shops should be open the longest, so that those not working in retail thus unable to buy things on weekdays can actually buy things.
 
Nexus said:
That's not the world we live in anymore.
Many people in loads of different industries have to have their days off mid-week.

Retail needs customers and weekends are the busiest time for custom.

I don't see why retail workers are any different to any other industry. If you really want a traditional weekend, work in a different job.
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And why is it not the world we live in any more? (people are just as much to blame as any industry influence).

How long tho if laws become relaxed even further before there are no jobs where the traditional weekend still is in effect?

I don't see why people are so keen to embrace living just to work its a very short sighted ideal. With very negative ramifications if left to run its course. Unfortunatly a certain amount of social conditioning has gone on over the centuries resulting in a very warped perception of the nature of laziness.
 
I'm surprised Sunday trading law still exist, I'd love to know how many billions it costs the retail industry every year.

I can't understand the arguments against removing the law. It would create more jobs and give existing employees the opportunity to earn more. If you don't like working Sundays then work elsewhere, it's not like anyone would be losing much by changing industry, its low skilled and low paid work.
 
Embrace living just to work? Nope you've made that up.
Short sighted? What's the issue with it? Why is it dpshort sighted?

Traditional weekend doesn't exist for so many people. We also don't live in a 9-5 anymore either. Global economics means people have to be at work due to time zone difference around the globe.


Nature of laziness? Your going to have to explain what that means and why it's important to this topic.
 
Rroff said:
And why is it not the world we live in any more? (people are just as much to blame as any industry influence).

How long tho if laws become relaxed even further before there are no jobs where the traditional weekend still is in effect?

I don't see why people are so keen to embrace living just to work its a very short sighted ideal. With very negative ramifications if left to run its course. Unfortunatly a certain amount of social conditioning has gone on over the centuries resulting in a very warped perception of the nature of laziness.
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Have you been living under a rock?
We live in a connected world these days, in my own line of work I have to deal with people in different time zones.

It's not the world we live in anymore because there are loads of people who work shift works and strange hours, for example:

- Doctors, Nurses, Hospital Staff.
- Truck Drivers
- Public Transport Operators
- Security Guards

That's just a sample, I could go on.
Are you saying that a Doctor who is working night shifts, who can't get to the shops is selfish for wanting shops to be open more often?

As for the second part of your post, I really don't know what you are trying to preach. Yes, it would be nice to live in a world that doesn't revolve around money or working, but that's not the world we live in. If you don't want to work, go live on benefits and contribute even less to society.
 
Nexus said:
You must have been watching some other Olympics, because some started as early as 8:30am. You also have to factor in that people had to get to venues and are hardly going to go shopping and turn up somewhere, when for any of the ticketed events, you wouldn't be allowed to bring shopping in anyway.

As I said, many people were also too busy watching the events on TV or at live screens than going shopping, this was reflected in the fact that trading was massively down during the Games period, which a relaxation of Sunday Trading Laws wasn't going to change.
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The shops were busy in the afternoon though when most of the events were on. Also the small shops (which there are many in London) do have some customers but no where near as many as the afternoon. I went out this morning and most of the larger shops open at 12pm. I was in the small shops at 11am. Some i was the only customer in there.
 
All the shops are shut in Belgium on Sunday and it's a day for families.

At first I hated it but now I love it and pray it doesn't change.
 
delta0 said:
The shops were busy in the afternoon though when most of the events were on. Also the small shops (which there are many in London) do have some customers but no where near as many as the afternoon. I went out this morning and most of the larger shops open at 12pm. I was in the small shops at 11am. Some i was the only customer in there.
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As I said in my previous post, there was a marked fall in the number of shoppers during the games, when retailers had been hoping it would be a boom, which is part of the reason the government allowed the Sunday Trading Laws to be relaxed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19659806

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jul/31/retail-trade-london-slump-olympics

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-as-shoppers-stayed-in-to-watch-Olympics.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19059880

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/sep/04/uk-retail-sales-olympics-august


Not sure what you are trying to argue about today though. If there is one thing that is clear, it's that Sunday Trading Laws are confusing to the customer, as they can choose the hours they open, as long as they don't exceed them. Not to mention, some will be open for browsing, but unable to make transactions. It's not the same as if you went shopping at 9am Mon-Sat when likely everywhere would be open.

If I was going shopping on Sunday, I'd aim for after midday because the shops are likely to all be open by then. Come 4pm though, I won't know how many will still be open.
 
Nexus said:
As I said in my previous post, there was a marked fall in the number of shoppers during the games, when retailers had been hoping it would be a boom, which is part of the reason the government allowed the Sunday Trading Laws to be relaxed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19659806

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jul/31/retail-trade-london-slump-olympics

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-as-shoppers-stayed-in-to-watch-Olympics.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19059880

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/sep/04/uk-retail-sales-olympics-august


Not sure what you are trying to argue about today though. If there is one thing that is clear, it's that Sunday Trading Laws are confusing to the customer, as they can choose the hours they open, as long as they don't exceed them. Not to mention, some will be open for browsing, but unable to make transactions. It's not the same as if you went shopping at 9am Mon-Sat when likely everywhere would be open.

If I was going shopping on Sunday, I'd aim for after midday because the shops are likely to all be open by then. Come 4pm though, I won't know how many will still be open.
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From what I observed in North London zone 3, not central. There was no change. Morning was dead, afternoon was busy. I'm only relaying what I have observed. Also the small shops on the high street near me which have no Sunday restrictions have a few customers in the morning but it is not busy. Larger London shops are open 12-6pm. Smaller are 9/10am-9/10pm.

I don't really care if the law is there or not. There are so many shops around me that it doesn't affect, but they still only get busy in the afternoon. The busiest places in the morning are the coffee shops. I could go shopping right now, i have been before when i needed a few bits and it is dead.
 
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I am completely for abolishing the silly Sunday trading laws.

I want to be able to go to Tesco at 1AM on a Sunday to buy a cucumber and a HDMI cable (don't ask) - problem? I'm not in any way saying that we should force the stores to open all day, I'm just saying I want them to have the option to do so.

The main arguments against abolishing it are pretty nonsensical too:

Allow smaller shops to compete
If we want to help the smaller shops compete, then why don't we get rid of the small shops which have prospered, achieved economies of scale which benefit the consumer, grown and then prospered as etailers or supermarkets too? If a shop fails to modernise with the times, then it's their problem - not mine. So what if your local corner shop that tries to rip me off by charging £1.05 for a Dr. Pepper (yes - you heard me; £0.05 more than tesco! Thieving *****! :mad::p) has been forced to close down because people realised that the awesome supermarket is so much better?

Protect workers' rights
I can totally see where you're coming from with this point, and it would most certainly be a valid one were it not for the AMAZING laws of this epic country to protect our rights and sanity.

SOURCE FOR THE FOLLOWING QUOTES

Employers can’t force adults to work more than 48 hours a week on average - normally averaged over 17 weeks.
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I'm going to just use simple calculations for the purposes of this argument - please don't be overly pedantic! :)

48 hours over 7 days means roughly 7 hours a day. That really isn't a lot. Really, it isn't. Some people prefer to work 7 hours a day for 7 days and have time on the weekdays, others prefer to work 10 hours a day for 5 days and have weekends off - both are perfectly acceptable and 100% reasonable.

MagicBoy said:
That's utter tripe and you know it. If a potential employee won't agree to working sunday in retail they'll just find someone else who will and you won't get the job.
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Workers 18 or over who want to work more than 48 hours a week, can choose to opt out of the 48-hour limit.

This could be for a certain period or indefinitely. It must be voluntary and in writing. It can’t be contained in an agreement with the whole workforce.

An employer shouldn’t sack or unfairly treat a worker (eg refused promotion) for refusing to sign an opt-out.
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It's true in EVERY job that the employee that is willing to do more to benefit the company will pretty much be guaranteed to get the job over the employee who isn't. I see no problems at all with this. If I'm prepared to work harder than someone else, why should I not be rewarded for it?

Employees are also within their rights to not want to work more than 48 hours a week and the law protects them from being punished as a direct result of this. They can't be forced in any way to work more than those 48 hours. If they are dismissed and the only reason is that they wouldn't sign an opt out, then they have every right to sue the employer.

TL;DR: UK = awesome, employee rights are protected.
 
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You mean you cannot go to a supermarket on a Sunday?? I went to 3 today - packed as usual. Sunday is one of the two busiest day of the week. People round here tend to shop at the weekend. I knew that some parts of Northern Scotland(usually the Isles) did not allow things on Sunday but I did not know England was also behind the times.
 
do_ron_ron said:
You mean you cannot go to a supermarket on a Sunday?? I went to 3 today - packed as usual. Sunday is one of the two busiest day of the week. People round here tend to shop at the weekend. I knew that some parts of Northern Scotland(usually the Isles) did not allow things on Sunday but I did not know England was also behind the times.
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Not after 6pm.
 
Ahh Sunday trading. Recently the store where I work were told by the company our opening hours were extending from 9am-6pm to 7am-10pm. That's an extra 6 hours a day. In that 6 hours, we take on average an extra £500 which in the grand scheme of things is bugger all. However what pees me off is only stores under 3,000 square feet are allowed to open for more than 6 hours on a Sunday and our store is 3,012 sq. ft. The company decided to argue that as you walk in the shop the extra 20sq. ft or so isn't actually trading space and that this should be taken into account and it was after 8 months of trying to argue with the council. I travel by bus to work, it's 15 miles each way and takes about an hour. Now let's say I work 2-10 that Sunday, the buses come at 10:01 and 11:01. It's not possible to get out for the 10:01 bus so by the time I've got home it's actually Monday. Sods.

You are of course allowed to opt out of Sunday working however if I did that my manager said he'd cut my contract by 1/7th and of course being in the wonderful retirement county of Devon we have bugger all jobs except looking after the elderly and serving them their broccoli and bread so we're forced to do it :/
 
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