Maybe An Opportunity For An Amateur Photographer?
- Thread starter funkyphantom
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Sometimes mate. Not many though
You don't need to make stuff up; he is paying them (in kind). Just not as much as you'd like in cash.
I personally think that great photographers with a good business model can still make a great living.
If they cant, they're either not that great, or need to change their business model and not worry about threads like this.
It's no good saying that though if everybody takes the attitude of the OP when seeking out professional photographs for their business. If everybody thinks an amateur or 'mate with camera' can do the job, then who is even going to go to a Pro?
your making stuff up again to suit your argument. When did he seek out a professional?
If you read the title he specifically asks for an amateur. If they dont like the results thats his problem but please stop making stuff up.
I know I may sound patronizing but I genuinely believe my 1st post answers that.
Great photographers with a good business model.
I'm pretty swamped at the moment, but if a gap opens up I might pop down and take some shots just to see what I can get (im not a landscape tog) then offer them over.
Not a golfer but maybe we could come up with some trade that works for us both
As for those that don't like the offer, don't waste your time arguing. If you don't agree then it's best just to press the back button. OP doesn't fancy paying pro rates which is fine, and I'm sure that there are people out there wanting to build a portfolio.
No pro's are going to lose business over this so there's no need to argue over it
Not a golfer but maybe we could come up with some trade that works for us both
As for those that don't like the offer, don't waste your time arguing. If you don't agree then it's best just to press the back button. OP doesn't fancy paying pro rates which is fine, and I'm sure that there are people out there wanting to build a portfolio.
No pro's are going to lose business over this so there's no need to argue over it
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Again Nexus. I am not asking for a pro photographer. I am asking for someone who has a vested interest in landscape photography. And, in turn for that I am willing to sort them a very good day out for him and 3 friends.
I DO understand what your point is. Which is why I said in my first post that people could possibly take it as me being 'cheeky' or 'damn right rude'
I DO understand what your point is. Which is why I said in my first post that people could possibly take it as me being 'cheeky' or 'damn right rude'
You are missing the point of what I am saying though.
It doesn't matter how good a Photographer they may be if everyone decides that they don't need the services of a professional photographer.
As for those that don't like the offer, don't waste your time arguing. If you don't agree then it's best just to press the back button. OP doesn't fancy paying pro rates which is fine, and I'm sure that there are people out there wanting to build a portfolio.
No pro's are going to lose business over this so there's no need to argue over it
Its a public discussion forum and I'm allowed to give my opinion. As others have already pointed out, this thread is tame to the response you would get on any of the UK dedicated Photography websites.
No Pros are going to loose business over this?
Well he hasn't even gone to a local Pro Photographer to even get quotes for the work he would like doing. As I said before, if everyone takes that attitude, then the trade will continue to die.
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I think you'll find its happening to every trade mate. Not just photography. People need to save money, therefore they look at ways of doing it. I know its not fair, but its a dog eat dog world out there. I think what the previous posters are trying to say is, if your a good 'tog' then theres no need to worry?
No, no pro's are losing business over this because they wouldn't pay for one in the first place.
It's like wedding photographers kicking off because someone is charging £200 and they feel that they are losing business when their cheapest package is £1500.
Customers fit in to bands, that £200 customer couldn't afford the £1500 tog so they aren't losing business when a new tog takes the job.
This customer here is after something from an amateur and is prepared for the results. If a pro had been undercut by a amateur then I would agree with you.
As for this being a discussion forum, all you are doing is repeating yourself and we've all read your opionion, it's been responded to but you'll keep banging that drum because you can't see past the end of your nose. If you want to start a discussion about freebies effecting togs, go start a thread on it.
This is a simple job request and tbh, doesn't need indepth discussion. As a professional photographer myself, it doesn't worry me in the slightest, and in all honesty, if any togs are worried about this then either their work is bad or they have no confidence in what they are selling.
An odd viewpoint.
A photographer currently has no work. Sees this pop up and can't get the gig because Mr Birthday camera has got it. You could argue there wasn't a job there for him in the first place, but if none of the amateurs around did it then the pro would have had a payment for his job.
It's very easy to see why people are annoyed at this sort of thing. It's been getting worse and worse over the last 10 years, and as digital photography makes it easier and easier for decent looking photos, it will only get worse unless some sort of law is passed forcing people to use registered professionals unless taken themselves for their own businesses.
A photographer currently has no work. Sees this pop up and can't get the gig because Mr Birthday camera has got it. You could argue there wasn't a job there for him in the first place, but if none of the amateurs around did it then the pro would have had a payment for his job.
It's very easy to see why people are annoyed at this sort of thing. It's been getting worse and worse over the last 10 years, and as digital photography makes it easier and easier for decent looking photos, it will only get worse unless some sort of law is passed forcing people to use registered professionals unless taken themselves for their own businesses.
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You could apply that to most trades though mate.
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Well, i'm a Greenkeeper. Curse those lightweight hover mowers, and B+Qs own brand weed and feed.
Quite simply then he's either a **** photographer or he's **** at running a business. If a pro is having to trawl a computer forum for work because he has no work then he shouldn't really call himself a pro
I don't advertise or actively promote myself but work comes in based on my photos and word of mouth. You're assuming that if they couldn't find an amateur they would pay a pro when in reality they would probably stick with the rather dull looking photos they already have!
You're also assuming that because someone is a amateur he's "mr birthday camera" when in reality, I know amateurs who have invested many thousands of pounds more than me in equipment and take some amazing photos.
They won't pass a law, it's buyer beware. In this case the OP knows that an amateur might not provide professional images, if they are willing to take the risk then so be it.
Your law idea would also effect those that can't afford an expensive tog for weddings. Law's and registering means extra cost to us, which we then have to pass on. Why should those with little money be punished because some people can't stand competition or are so bad they are being run out of business by new starters.
aahh that old chestnut.
'All our whining isn't stopping this new fangled technology so lets run to the government and make them pass laws to protect our outdated business model'
good luck with that
He hasn't looked at quotes from a cheap Professional Photographer though, so its technically undercutting them as well, because even the Pro who doesn't charge much, or put much effort in has to get the volume of work to be able to operate.
The OP may well be offering something as a trade, but its not costing the business much at all.
As I said before its a discussion forum, so I'm allowed to make a comment as I see fit, as others with similar opinion have done. I'd also add that the forum does actually have rules on promotion of business interests and any buying/selling/trading is restricted to the members market, so this thread does verge on infringing that.
Only reason I even posted in this thread again was because yourself and another poster insulted me.
I also think your viewpoint is an odd one for somebody who says they are a Professional Photographer.
and taking photos costs you how much?
Please don't give me the usual about how much your kit costs because I bet a golf course costs more.
but they don't want to pay anything for the services, so no professional, even the cheap ones are losing out.
It's like saying film companies lose out when people pirate a film, the pirates would never have purchased the film so technically, there was no lost sale.
it's also up to the tog that accepts it, if they are happy with the deal then so be it. It's nothing to do with anyone else!
It's not odd at all, it doesn't bother me because a) I realise that it's not undercutting or taking work from anyone and b) my work speaks for itself and I am not threatened by offers like this.
In my main area which is weddings I have people local to me doing weddings for £200, does it bother me? no. Their customers couldn't afford me and their photos are extrememly poor so they won't even be competition for me.
I didn't insult you, I simply pointed out that you can see past your deep routed view point that this is wrong and will destroy the photography industry. One that keeps getting thrown in despite being acknowledged by the op. It's a common thought for lots of togs and tbh, rather a silly one. I suppose we should be having stock image sites shut down as well. Compeition is there to push yourself, and yes, it's kill or be killed, but do it with skill not by holding back the competition.