Diet Food Programme

Glaucus · 5 Dec 2012 at 19:44

delta0 said:
As we are talking about meal skipping then these are more appropriate.
The addition of a protein-rich breakfast and its effects on acute appetite control and food intake in ‘breakfast-skipping’ adolescents (H J Leidy and E M Racki, 2010)
The importance of all meals (L Engler, 2008)
The acute effects of meals on cognitive performance (CR Mahoney, 2005)
Eating meals irregularly: a novel environmental risk factor for the metabolic syndrome (J Sierra-Johnson, AL Undén, M Linestrand, 2008)

You can't just keep pulling research. you need to understand them

First one irrelevant or can be irrelevant. This research is statistical. some people react one way some don't. It also very much depends what you are eating throughout the day as well.

Eating meals irregularly: a novel environmental risk factor for the metabolic syndrome (J Sierra-Johnson, AL Undén, M Linestrand, 2008
found that high energy breakfast have highest congnitive results, while low calorie cognitive calories gave poor results. You going to get a dieter to

I'm on a primal "diet" around 1800 calories a day. Telling me skipping breakfast leads to increased calories? nope.

Breakfast led to increased satiety through increased fullness and PYY concentrations in 'breakfast skipping' adolescents. A breakfast rich in dietary protein provides additional benefits through reductions in appetite and energy intake. These findings suggest that the addition of a protein-rich breakfast might be an effective strategy to improve appetite control in young people.

The acute effects of meals on cognitive performance
you need to eat a high calorific breakfast to say proper results. it also reduces after eating lunch (could be time of day rather than food)

So yeah, just quoting research isn't helping you, when you don't read what it actually concludes.

delta0 · 5 Dec 2012 at 20:24

They are just general effects caused by the skipped meal. The second link covers the physical effects. TBH seeing a GP is the way to go regardless of what a peer reviewed journal says and especially what is said on a discussion board.

Whilst I obviously can't get the medical guidance on here this is pretty much aligned with it. http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/most-important-meal

This is not bad advice either http://www.forbes.com/sites/jennifercohen/2012/04/24/9-bad-habits-that-make-you-fat/

delta0 · 5 Dec 2012 at 20:27

King Damager said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01lxyzc

Now shoo

As with every episode of Horizon, I'd probably take it with a pinch of salt. Then again, anyone who has been through any decent level of academia will realise that you should take all articles with a pinch of salt too.

kd

As with any media presentation it is not a reliable peer reviewed source of information.

King Damager · 5 Dec 2012 at 20:40

It's all linked into studies, you'd realise this if you'd actually watched it.

kd

delta0 · 5 Dec 2012 at 20:47

King Damager said:
It's all linked into studies, you'd realise this if you'd actually watched it.

kd

As with all media presentation it is interpreted and therefore not the original source. I do appreciate the media presentation but it is unciteable as original research. I'm digressing, seeing the GP is what the OP should do especially if they want to consider a specific diet, anything else would be negligent.

Mickey · 5 Dec 2012 at 22:25

delta0 said:
As with all media presentation it is interpreted and therefore not the original source. I do appreciate the media presentation but it is unciteable as original research. I'm digressing, seeing the GP is what the OP should do especially if they want to consider a specific diet, anything else would be negligent.

In theory, seeing a GP should be the way to go. In practice, I doubt seeing a GP would do much to help the OP. A GP would most likely just push him down the low fat, grain filled path to go along with the NHS 'Healthy eating plate'.

I've discussed my nutrition with various doctors and nurses, they normally look horrified, then struggle to explain the dramatic improvements in my health since I took matters into my own hands and stopped following their advice.

General mainstream nutritional advice is severely lacking, based on bad science which for various reasons became accepted as medical fact with nothing to back it up. The sooner people realise this, the sooner they can start to actually get better IMO.

King Damager · 5 Dec 2012 at 22:32

Mickey said:
General mainstream nutritional advice is severely lacking, based on bad science which for various reasons became accepted as medical fact with nothing to back it up. The sooner people realise this, the sooner they can start to actually get better IMO.

One of the ones I particularly like here, is fruit and veg recommendations.

It varies cross-nationally, and is something like 11 portions recommended in Japan. I can't remember where, but I definitely remember reading somewhere that the reason we have 5 in the UK is because 'it seemed like an amount that people might stick too'

kd

Mickey · 5 Dec 2012 at 22:40

King Damager said:
but I definitely remember reading somewhere that the reason we have 5 in the UK is because 'it seemed like an amount that people might stick too'

Stephen Fry said it on QI

King Damager · 5 Dec 2012 at 22:45

Mickey said:
Stephen Fry said it on QI

Oh god. Scrap that. That really is a poor source...

kd

Somnambulist · 6 Dec 2012 at 00:52

delta0 said:
Fasting is not a long term solution. Returns will diminish and you will feel awful. Losing the muscle and screwing up you insulin levels are not the way to do it heathly.

BRB telling Martin Berkhan he's wasting away

delta0 · 6 Dec 2012 at 07:21

16 hours of not eating is not very long, most people don't eat for 14 hours. Having a late breakfast is not skipping a meal. Athletes don't have as much body fat as him and they do not skip meals.You're forgetting we are talking about an overweight person wanting to lose a large amount of fat. The metabolism is key to this. Skipping a meal will harm the metabolism. Last thing you need is to be starving yourself you will come out of it having lost muscle as well as the fat.

Deception · 6 Dec 2012 at 07:46

http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html

delta0 · 6 Dec 2012 at 08:13

Not to state the obvious, 8-10 hours period to eat is normal.

Mickey · 6 Dec 2012 at 12:25

delta0 said:
16 hours of not eating is not very long, most people don't eat for 14 hours. Having a late breakfast is not skipping a meal. Athletes don't have as much body fat as him and they do not skip meals.You're forgetting we are talking about an overweight person wanting to lose a large amount of fat. The metabolism is key to this. Skipping a meal will harm the metabolism. Last thing you need is to be starving yourself you will come out of it having lost muscle as well as the fat.

Why do you keep ignoring all the benefits people in the real world get from IF and focussing on your misinformed belief that skipping a few meals will slow your metabolism and cause muscle loss? And why do you keep going on about athletes?

The OP clearly isn't an athlete, he just wants to lose weight and get healthy, something which IF has shown to help with in it's various forms and is especially good at if you follow an eating plan which gets you conditioned for burning body fat as fuel.

delta0 · 6 Dec 2012 at 13:00

Mickey said:
Why do you keep ignoring all the benefits people in the real world get from IF and focussing on your misinformed belief that skipping a few meals will slow your metabolism and cause muscle loss? And why do you keep going on about athletes?

The OP clearly isn't an athlete, he just wants to lose weight and get healthy, something which IF has shown to help with in it's various forms and is especially good at if you follow an eating plan which gets you conditioned for burning body fat as fuel.

Well, 8-10 hours period to eat is normal. If that is fasting then most people do it.

Chris1712 · 6 Dec 2012 at 13:29

delta0 said:
16 hours of not eating is not very long, most people don't eat for 14 hours. Having a late breakfast is not skipping a meal. Athletes don't have as much body fat as him and they do not skip meals.You're forgetting we are talking about an overweight person wanting to lose a large amount of fat. The metabolism is key to this. Skipping a meal will harm the metabolism. Last thing you need is to be starving yourself you will come out of it having lost muscle as well as the fat.

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=1812308

The cardiovascular said:
Resting metabolic rate (kJ/min) was significantly increased after 36 h of starvation
(12 h 4.60 (SE 0.14), 36 h 4.88 (SE 0.13), P < 0.001), but was not significantly different from the 12 h value
after 72 h (72 h 4.72 (SE 0.15) P = 0.06).

Thanks.

delta0 · 6 Dec 2012 at 13:35

In addition, if you are skipping breakfast then you are going to be eating for a period of 6 hours, that is less than Martin Berkhan advises.

Deception · 6 Dec 2012 at 13:39

delta0 said:
In addition, if you are skipping breakfast then you are going to be eating for a period of 6 hours, that is less than Martin Berkhan advises.

It depends on when the person starts the fasting period from the day before. So each day could be different, even though most people try and make it the same time every day.

At the end of the day, its down to the diet of the individual (the OP in this case). Although since he posted the opening comment, I dont think he has been back

delta0 · 6 Dec 2012 at 13:45

Deception said:
It depends on when the person starts the fasting period from the day before. So each day could be different, even though most people try and make it the same time every day.

At the end of the day, its down to the diet of the individual (the OP in this case). Although since he posted the opening comment, I dont think he has been back

That is very true, it would depend on that. Important to note that breakfast is just an association with the first meal in the morning. If your first meal is at 8/10am and last at 6pm that is exactly the same period as if it was 10am/12pm-8pm. In reality you would not be skipping a meal, at most you would be just delaying your first and last meal to later. If you are skipping then it is reducing that time period.

Mickey · 6 Dec 2012 at 13:52

delta0 said:
Well, 8-10 hours period to eat is normal. If that is fasting then most people do it.

I think you'll find that for most people it'd be around 12-13 hours, and that's ignoring any snacks later on at night. A 16/8 pattern is only the most relaxed generally accepted definition of IF too, plenty of people do a 20/4, or take it further and just miss whole days. Getting into the 36-40 hour fast range is easy once your body is prepared.