Fuel up/down again

pugheaven · 27 Feb 2013 at 14:07

MooMoo444 said:
Running a car is really difficult these days, with tax, insurance, fuel, maintaining it, mot/services etc. It all adds up to a massive chunk of your salary.

Well thinking like this:

Mazda RX8 -
Road Tax 12 Months - £475
Insurance 12 months - £335
MOT - £35 notes is it?
Averaging 19mpg (£1.46 per litre of VPower) and done 6k miles since October - £2100 notes already just in fuel
Service (hard to say) say £1000 per year?

And that's before anything goes wrong lol. My oil bill alone is probably matching the fuel rofl.

acemastr · 27 Feb 2013 at 14:07

Which, as mine has, are all going down! (or not up)

Jez · 27 Feb 2013 at 14:31

MooMoo444 said:
Running a car is really difficult these days, with tax, insurance, fuel, maintaining it, mot/services etc. It all adds up to a massive chunk of your salary.

P sure the UK has one of the lowest motoring cost burdens in Europe doesn't it?

As long as you are not 17 insurance is dirt cheap, our VED is probably one of the cheapest VED systems in europe, and the only other legal requirement we have is a basic road-worthiness test which almost anything should pass without issue or much remedial work, and costs from around 20 quid per annum!

SDK^ · 27 Feb 2013 at 14:56

pugheaven said:
Mazda RX8 -

That is your problem - If you are doing 18,000 miles a year in an RX8 then you only have yourself to blame for high fuel bills
Switch to a boring diesel and save ££££'s.

ubersonic · 27 Feb 2013 at 15:50

SDK^ said:
That is your problem - If you are doing 18,000 miles a year in an RX8 then you only have yourself to blame for high fuel bills
Switch to a boring diesel and save ££££'s.

I don't think he was complaining just listing his costs, which are kinda scary, my turbo Supra costs half of what his RX8 appears to on fuel/tax/servicing and can go between services without drinking its oil

Rilot · 27 Feb 2013 at 16:45

pugheaven said:
Well thinking like this:

Mazda RX8 -
Road Tax 12 Months - £475
Insurance 12 months - £335
MOT - £35 notes is it?
Averaging 19mpg (£1.46 per litre of VPower) and done 6k miles since October - £2100 notes already just in fuel
Service (hard to say) say £1000 per year?

And that's before anything goes wrong lol. My oil bill alone is probably matching the fuel rofl.

Pretty much matches up with my costs back when I had one. Although mine was a 2004 so didn't have the expensive tax.
These costs are why I got shot and bought a nice frugal 4.2L V8 car.

silversurfer · 27 Feb 2013 at 20:18

SDK^ said:
Switch to a boring diesel and save ££££'s.

Run it on biodiesel, save even more. I imagine if oil went up continually the country would be covered in endless miles of rapeseed or whatever gives the best amount of oil.
Its that or convert engines to work on natural gas and get fracking, which I dont see happening and its not half as easy as lpg afaik

Steedie said:
I still can't believe it was only 4 years ago (when I passed my test), that petrol was around 85p mental

That was an exceptional low, they were storing tankers of oil in british estuaries just until prices came back as they knew it wouldnt last

Think I can remember maybe 50p or so mid ninities, it never seemed cheap but I got 20mpg or so with old carb motors, manual choke so no wonder

pugheaven · 27 Feb 2013 at 20:33

I accepted all my RX8 bills, otherwise I'd not have bought one, I'm even accepting that I'll need a rebuild within the next 12-18 months, not a problem for me. However that doesn't alter the fact that the price of fuel now is just a complete rip off whether I drive a 60mpg diesel or not...

The problem I have it's all a matter of money making from governments. Diesel used to be cheaper, then everyone switched and now it's more expensive. The same thing with LPG. If everyone in the country decided to switch, they'd double the price of it... they have to make their taxes etc... so it's a no win situation really. Therefore what we have now is the prices now affecting what people want to drive i.e. their freedom.

This wasn't an issue years ago... if you bought a gas guzzler, then so be it, but at least the fuel wasn't mental, but when you see so much going to the government.... especially when we there's speeding cameras everywhere, pot holes everywhere with a massive increase in the wear and tear on our roads... road tax going up just because it's a higher C02 level? I mean, wtf has C02 level got to do with how much road tax you pay? I mean originally it was directly related to road construction etc etc, however it then moved to a general tax...

Anyway, I'm now moaning about other topics lol. Back on topic. lol

We just have to accept it and move on... that or all use the superb public transport system we have in this country.

[TW]Fox · 27 Feb 2013 at 20:39

pugheaven said:
The problem I have it's all a matter of money making from governments. Diesel used to be cheaper, then everyone switched and now it's more expensive.

The government have played no part in the differential in price between diesel and petrol for almost 15 years. Duty on petrol and diesel is the same has been for a very long time indeed.

pugheaven · 27 Feb 2013 at 21:03

[TW]Fox;23845584 said:
The government have played no part in the differential in price between diesel and petrol for almost 15 years. Duty on petrol and diesel is the same has been for a very long time indeed.

Ok fair enough stand corrected, then it's the makers then cashing in. End result is the same, we're ripped off. EDIT: And my main point still stands, the government treat this like a money making machine... they could reduce vast amounts for the price at the pump if they reduced their tax on it... however they won't... so, tough we just have to move on and wait for battery or hydrogen powewaoaooorrr.. They didn't' have to put up road tax like they have now... but they did. They don't have to put up as many speed cameras but they did and they could do with fixing holes in the ground like I hit this morning on the way to the bank... I'm sure they won't pay my suspension replacement bill lol.

Infidelus · 27 Feb 2013 at 21:03

pugheaven said:
We just have to accept it and move on... that or all use the superb public transport system we have in this country.

You must be a time traveller from the future. No other way you could say it was superb

clv101 · 27 Feb 2013 at 21:38

pugheaven said:
Ok fair enough stand corrected, then it's the makers then cashing in. End result is the same, we're ripped off.

The main reasons diesel costs more per litre is that there's more energy in it! Diesel is 37.3 MJ/l where petrol is only 34.2MJ/l, ie you get 8% more energy in a litre of diesel... what's the price difference again?

pugheaven said:
EDIT: And my main point still stands, the government treat this like a money making machine... they could reduce vast amounts for the price at the pump if they reduced their tax on it...

It's only right that duty goes up with inflation - otherwise it goes down in real terms. Government also has to raise taxes, if not from fuel duty where do you suggest? I think fuel duty is a very good place to raise taxes, if I was king for a day I'd scrap road tax and collect the same revenue from fuel.

Fuel duty is a very efficient tax to collect and it's proportional to use - which is fair and gives us a lot of control. We can chose how efficient our cars are, how much we use them, how fast we drive etc. Compared to a lot of other taxes, fuel duty makes a lot more sense.

[TW]Fox · 27 Feb 2013 at 21:45

clv101 said:
The main reasons diesel costs more per litre is that there's more energy in it! Diesel is 37.3 MJ/l where petrol is only 34.2MJ/l, ie you get 8% more energy in a litre of diesel... what's the price difference again?

Well its not really the reason is it, the wholesale rate isn't set according to energy content, its set according to supply and demand!

Jonnycoupe · 27 Feb 2013 at 22:00

clv101 said:
The main reasons diesel costs more per litre is that there's more energy in it! Diesel is 37.3 MJ/l where petrol is only 34.2MJ/l, ie you get 8% more energy in a litre of diesel... what's the price difference again?

I think the product yield of 2:1 petrol to diesel has far more of an effect.... Goes hand in hand with the supply and demand Fox highlights. The fact is more efficient for the consumer helps reduce the demand such that the costs are not driven even higher!

clv101 · 27 Feb 2013 at 23:03

[TW]Fox;23846052 said:
Well its not really the reason is it, the wholesale rate isn't set according to energy content, its set according to supply and demand!

The energy rate is big part of it - not the whole reason but a big part of it. Ultimately we're buying energy - one reason why diesel demand is what it is that it has 8% more energy in it. If it had the same energy as petrol - it would give 8% less mpg, it's attractiveness would decrease, fewer people would drive diesels, lower demand.

Simon · 27 Feb 2013 at 23:07

What is in French diesel then?

Refinery setup and catalyst is the real reason that diesel is more expensive. We have a surplus of gasoline in Europe and short on diesel. This is only going to increase.

US is the opposite

ubersonic · 28 Feb 2013 at 09:06

clv101 said:
The energy rate is big part of it - not the whole reason but a big part of it. Ultimately we're buying energy - one reason why diesel demand is what it is that it has 8% more energy in it. If it had the same energy as petrol - it would give 8% less mpg, it's attractiveness would decrease, fewer people would drive diesels, lower demand.

But then why is LPG like 1/2 the price of petrol when it has ~90% of the energy?

Rilot · 28 Feb 2013 at 09:22

For the last 2 days, I decided to test our public transport system rather than take the car.

So, train from Twyford to Four Oaks yesterday - £93 - 3 hours elapsed time (would have been just over 2 hours to drive) and I didn't get a seat from Reading to Birmingham. 1.5hrs standing.
Then I had the problem of getting from our office to my hotel. No station near the hotel so I had to take a taxi - £8
Taxi again this morning - £8
Then 3 hours home later. Probably standing again.

So, I spent £109 and had to stand for most of it.
Next time I'll drive.

Until fuel is £3+ per litre, it's still better to drive when you consider the comfort and speed.

MrMoonX · 28 Feb 2013 at 09:38

Muffin` said:
How else are we to pay for your pension liabilities?

errr what? this thread is about fuel not pensions :rolleyes:

PhillyDee · 28 Feb 2013 at 09:59

clv101 said:
The energy rate is big part of it - not the whole reason but a big part of it. Ultimately we're buying energy - one reason why diesel demand is what it is that it has 8% more energy in it. If it had the same energy as petrol - it would give 8% less mpg, it's attractiveness would decrease, fewer people would drive diesels, lower demand.

So why was diesel always cheaper until 3-4 years ago?