Channel 4 - Skint

krooton said:
So what happens to the people currently employed to do these jobs?
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They keep their jobs and we have 'extra' people doing it as well. Don't see the issue with that.

People do litter picking etc now, but how many times do you go to a park for instance and find litter/dogs mess etc? And extra million pairs of hands or so would make the UK a much tidier place to live.

It's not about what job they do, or who already does it, it's about getting people off the arse and into 'society'.
 
same old cliche crap solutions all the time.

edit: no i don't have any of my own
 
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The system we have now really does seem to be geared to screw over people who genuinely need help and pay ridiculous sums in benefits and housing allowances to those who take the piddle. An electrician friend of mine was kept hanging for 8 weeks just to find out he wasn't entitled to any JSA as his patchy on off work hadn't covered his NI balance fully, which is calculated down to a very short period before you claim iirc, due to poor health (partly brought on from decades of HARD work not taken into account, ha!) and the decline in need for sparks at the time. He got by and is now back in business but that's not the point. This is the same system that rewards people who have never, ever, paid national insurance :p

As for crap solutions Efour, what do you propose? Hand out cash to people who don't know the value of the pound? Oh yes, that works :o
 
d_brennen said:
The system we have now really does seem to be geared to screw over people who genuinely need help and pay ridiculous sums in benefits and housing allowances to those who take the piddle. An electrician friend of mine was kept hanging for 8 weeks just to find out he wasn't entitled to any JSA as his patchy on off work hadn't covered his NI balance fully, which is calculated down to a very short period before you claim iirc, due to poor health (partly brought on from decades of HARD work not taken into account, ha!) and the decline in need for sparks at the time. He got by and is now back in business but that's not the point. This is the same system that rewards people who have never, ever, paid national insurance :p

As for crap solutions Efour, what do you propose? Hand out cash to people who don't know the value of the pound? Oh yes, that works :o
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JSA is only 2 percent of the welfare bill, 90 % -/+ that receive housing benefit work. Since 1979 we have built less homes, we give the wealth millions in hand outs, just google the queen look how much she received in hand outs for not using her land.

Look at the amount of corporate welfare this country pays, look at the amount of money the rich get from the state, if you all are going out on a full on attack on the poor many suggesting no hand outs then there must be no hand out for corporations of the wealthy like the queen.
The political policies created this mess, they destroyed almost everything they touched, look at privatisation the sell off was supposed to provide zero subsidies yet we are subsidising companies that once were in public hands and now in the private hand more than when they were public controlled
 
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My step-brother has mental health issues. To be honest I am not exactly sure what, but it is to the extent where he can't go outside his own home because he is scared. He will only use, for instance, a toothbrush once as he feels it becomes contaminated once used.

In about 9 years that I have 'known' (of) him, I have only met him a handful of times, and have never been to his house as he won't have people round due to them contaminating his house.

He has obviously been on benefits, which have now been stopped. They wanted him to go to the jobcentre to undertake an interview, which he is incapable of doing. Despite medical reports to confirm his mental health issues, they have taken away all his benefits due to him not attending the interview. My step-mum and Dad (both retired) now have to provide him with basically all the money he needs for rent/gas/electric/CT/food etc as he doesn't have a penny and no income.
 
davejh666 said:
It might be cheap, and you are quite right, nothing there is out of the ordinary. However, it is a 'luxury' item. They are not neccessities. Tehy are not essentials. When did society go so wrong as to deem a big TV (and it is still big) and games console 'normal' when you are unemployed and on society hand-outs? Especially when you can't even afford to buy babies their milk.

But, if you had kids, and I am guessing you don't (sorry if I am wrong), you would understand that you would do anything necessary (within the law obv) to provide for those children. If that means selling something whilst times are hard, then needs be.

I have 3 children, live in an Housing Association house, and both me and other half work and get nothing (except child benefit) from the government. I was made redundant about 3 years ago when I had my second on the way. I went and got another job within a week (was lucky enough to do so). However the job, for a 2 year training period was much lower paid than my previous job. I sold my motorbike and various other things that were not a necessity to enable us to give a good quality of life to our children.
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Obviously they can't budget & neither are they very good with money.

Selling possessions won't solve that problem was my point, neither would slashing the money they get (as it would just mean the children get even less than they do now).

I agree the children should be the first priority - but these programs with statistical outliers tend to be used as tools to justify cutting for the majority who do look after their children & still live in poverty.
 
None of the "solutions" above will work, they have been tried before & don't address the problem at source.

Firstly we have a deficit for jobs in the area of unskilled labour (in which people in areas with lower quality schools/lower socio-economic class/put off education types) will rely on (which in many cases could be stepping stone to better things).

These jobs have dried up as we've moved to a service economy - we restructured our economy but didn't invest in restructuring our society to ensure everybody kept up.

This kind of fallout (joblessness & general work related apathy) should be expected.

The key to solving this problem is increasing demand for goods & services from the bottom up, instead of offering tax cuts for corporations/corporate welfare (which doesn't suddenly magically make jobs materialise) - I'd invest in measures to enrich the working class with a greater disposable income (such as reducing the tax burden for the lowest earners/negative income tax or a myriad of other progressive tax measures).

We need to increase the number of people who really participate in our local economies, this drives demand & creates jobs - once we have a jobs surplus we can examine the remaining people who are out of work & attempt to understand the underline reasons & historical events which led to that life-style (then enact ethical evidence based policies to prevent it from occurring the future).
 
I don't think that really 'cutting' the benefits that families get is the solution, I would opt for other ideas (as mentioned above - food vouchers of some kind etc) rather than just money.

The wife went to school with someone who is unemployed, no intention of working. Neither does this persons husband. They have 4 children to provide for. Literally every week on facebook these people are on about having tattoo's done, hair done, nails done, going out etc. Yet every month they are asking if anyone has second hand children's clothes that they can have.

Now don't get me wrong, our children have had hand me downs. Just today a friend of ours has come round with a bag full of clothes for our youngest, and we really appreciate it tbh. But, it has come to a point where something needs to be done. As a country we can not carry on as we are. I don't know the solution, I am not clever enough, but I do agree that giving people less 'money' is not the solution, but I do think it needs to be re-thought as to how it is given.
 
davejh666 said:
I don't think that really 'cutting' the benefits that families get is the solution, I would opt for other ideas (as mentioned above - food vouchers of some kind etc) rather than just money.

The wife went to school with someone who is unemployed, no intention of working. Neither does this persons husband. They have 4 children to provide for. Literally every week on facebook these people are on about having tattoo's done, hair done, nails done, going out etc. Yet every month they are asking if anyone has second hand children's clothes that they can have.

Now don't get me wrong, our children have had hand me downs. Just today a friend of ours has come round with a bag full of clothes for our youngest, and we really appreciate it tbh. But, it has come to a point where something needs to be done. As a country we can not carry on as we are. I don't know the solution, I am not clever enough, but I do agree that giving people less 'money' is not the solution, but I do think it needs to be re-thought as to how it is given.
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The point is that we do have a generation we have failed as a society.

Plenty of talk by some groups about "personal responsibility" - but what about our social responsibility - it's all of our responsibility to ensure that the next generation are provided for, looked after, given an equal chance to succeed (if you check our social mobility statistics we are failing on this test).

I do firmly believe that low paid workers also require assistance, as you don't have to be out of work to be poor - but it's a pretty low tactic of the media to turn the working poor against the out of work poor (while the rich laugh at both of them & run off with all the money - metaphorically speaking).
 
davejh666 said:
I don't think that really 'cutting' the benefits that families get is the solution, I would opt for other ideas (as mentioned above - food vouchers of some kind etc) rather than just money.

The wife went to school with someone who is unemployed, no intention of working. Neither does this persons husband. They have 4 children to provide for. Literally every week on facebook these people are on about having tattoo's done, hair done, nails done, going out etc. Yet every month they are asking if anyone has second hand children's clothes that they can have.

Now don't get me wrong, our children have had hand me downs. Just today a friend of ours has come round with a bag full of clothes for our youngest, and we really appreciate it tbh. But, it has come to a point where something needs to be done. As a country we can not carry on as we are. I don't know the solution, I am not clever enough, but I do agree that giving people less 'money' is not the solution, but I do think it needs to be re-thought as to how it is given.
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I don't have the solution either but vouchers are a little intimidating, why not just put a sign on them saying "benefit scrounger" it's just to insensitive, not all are benefit cheats, the majority are genuine, it is unfortunate that the poorest, most vulnerable people in our society are being targeted.

I understand your concerns though and thought i'd never hear myself say this, but I agree on capping benefits to the amount announced but do not accept that this is having an effect on behaviour , simply because it's hard to imagine anyone receiving benefit over that amount. Having said that though, I think all claimants should be treated as individuals and exceptions made where they are justified, people are not cattle and benefit levels should not be set in stone.
 
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elmarko said:
The point is that we do have a generation we have failed as a society.

Plenty of talk by some groups about "personal responsibility" - but what about our social responsibility - it's all of our responsibility to ensure that the next generation are provided for, looked after, given an equal chance to succeed (if you check our social mobility statistics we are failing on this test).

I do firmly believe that low paid workers also require assistance, as you don't have to be out of work to be poor - but it's a pretty low tactic of the media to turn the working poor against the out of work poor (while the rich laugh at both of them & run off with all the money - metaphorically speaking).
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Hear hear. ;) it is a concern that low paid workers are next to be targeted by this vile Government when universal credits are rolled out.
 
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spankingtexan said:
I don't have the solution either but vouchers are a little intimidating, why not just put a sign on them saying "benefit scrounger" it's just to insensitive, not all are benefit cheats, the majority are genuine, it is unfortunate that the poorest, most vulnerable people in our society are being targeted.

I understand your concerns though and thought i'd never hear myself say this, but I agree on capping benefits to the amount announced but do not accept that this is having an effect on behaviour , simply because it's hard to imagine anyone receiving benefit over that amount. Having said that though, I think all claimants should be treated as individuals and exceptions made where they are justified, people are not cattle and benefit levels should not be set in stone.
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I can understand what you are saying. I think intimidating is perhaps the wrong word, but I can see how there might be yet another stigma attached to people on benefits should they be used. However, I think we do have a generation (and perhaps an up-coming one) who do not know any better than living on benefits and wasting the money they are given. I am not saying they are benefit cheats (the example of the girl I gave above isn't a cheat), however the are irresponsible. Perhaps it is a lack of education, but certainly in her case, it is a lack of morals - in that her and her husband would rather see themselves okay rather than their children.

As I said, I don't have a solution, I will leave that to some one far better educated and intelligent than me, but as a working class person, on probably average wages, it is disappointing to see how the country is going.

As another example, someone we know is committing benefit fraud (claiming they are living alone with their daughter whilst boyfriend who works lives there). We have, and I am not embarrassed by this, reported them to both the benefit fraud agency and their housing association. This has been going on for about 7 years, nothing has been done. They must have claimed somewhere in the region of £70k illegally. And I know its not typical of society, or people on benefits, but is easy to see why everyone gets painted in this way, and you wonder why nothing seemingly gets done about it?
 
spankingtexan said:
I don't have the solution either but vouchers are a little intimidating, why not just put a sign on them saying "benefit scrounger" it's just to insensitive, not all are benefit cheats, the majority are genuine, it is unfortunate that the poorest, most vulnerable people in our society are being targeted.

I understand your concerns though and thought i'd never hear myself say this, but I agree on capping benefits to the amount announced but do not accept that this is having an effect on behaviour , simply because it's hard to imagine anyone receiving benefit over that amount. Having said that though, I think all claimants should be treated as individuals and exceptions made where they are justified, people are not cattle and benefit levels should not be set in stone.
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Food vouchers are only intimidating if the society itself stigmatises them. This isn't the case - the main problem is that benefits can pay just as well as minimum wage.
 
Monkeynut said:
Food vouchers are only intimidating if the society itself stigmatises them. This isn't the case - the main problem is that benefits can pay just as well as minimum wage.
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I just can't agree with you here, vouchers would leave people feeling degraded and announce to the check out operator and those around you are in receipt of benefit in some form or another.

The main problem is that the minimum wage is not a liveable wage and those on benefit are being punished for low wages, those on a low wage who also have to claim in work benefits to make ends meet are next to be targeted when universal credits are rolled out. Would you suggest those who work on NMW and have to claim benefit because the min wage is below living standards be given food vouchers too? What about those who will sell on food vouchers for cash for other essential items? leaving them worse off because they would have to sell them for less than their value.
 
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That young couple that have 5 kids were disgusting. Going to a charity to get free food then 2 minutes later buying wedding rings and dresses. If they were so tight on money, sell the damn ps3/360/HD TV combo.

Bloody disgusting. :angry:
 
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