Just dropped a deposit on some M Power - Trackday Project Car

gibbo now your talking bum gravy if he just stripped 100 kgs and did a 1:12 :D

beating pro time attack records. :p wasn't going to reply but that did make me gibbo :D. funny thing is me and mates laughed on ts as on youtube there is a 400 bhp scooby doing 1:19 being driven badly aswell. took two minutes to find.

your car is going to do at best 1:19 unless you do serious spending and learn / practice the track.

that's being optimistic aswell 4 secs is a huge time to knock off.

atleast you got something to aim for now :cool:
 
~>Dg<~ said:
gibbo now your talking bum gravy if he just stripped 100 kgs and did a 1:12 :D
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So a guy who has owned both is talking bum gravy, no he is not, he is an owner, actually owned the cars, driven them at Donnington and timed then. Factual evidence. No bum gravy here and I provided you the actual link with such evidence, did you just decide to not click it and read it? You've spouted so much bum gravy in this thread and have not backed up a single statement you have made with any evidence, your the only one who talks bum gravy here old chap.



~>Dg<~ said:
beating pro time attack records. :p wasn't going to reply but that did make me gibbo :D. funny thing is me and mates laughed on ts as on youtube there is a 400 bhp scooby doing 1:19 being driven badly aswell. took two minutes to find.

your car is going to do at best 1:19 unless you do serious spending and learn / practice the track.

that's being optimistic aswell 4 secs is a huge time to knock off.

atleast you got something to aim for now :cool:
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That guy achieved that time, he owned an EVO and an M3 CSL, he set them both up for track and the M3 cost him less money, did not need any more power and it was faster. He is also a Pro driver too. Once again here is a link to this:-
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/1094055-post43.html
No bum gravy from me m8, just hardcore facts!

Oh and look someone who timed Blade in his CSL on slicks on a DAMP, YES DAMP Donnington and he did 1:16, link to more evidence:-
http://www.lancerregister.com/showpost.php?p=594277&postcount=29
Yet again no bum gravy here, just hardcore facts. So 1:16 in the damp on slicks, a 1:12 is pretty easy to be honest in the dry for a pro driver. Also Blade guy is a pro driver and his M3 CSL with 250BHP less than his EVO is quicker for him in damp and dry track, M3 kicking the EVO's ass I am afraid it seems DG and the EVO was designed for trackdays, once again 558BHP, Slicks, Cage, 1150kg, ohlins, stupid amounts of money and the CSL with just 100kg weight reduction (1250kg) and only 380BHP is comfortably faster.....


My car with a driver who is good can do 1:18, my car is pretty much identical now to Al Clarkes, he has achieved 1:17-1:18, with pretty much identical car to me, M3, partially stripped, coilovers, Michelin cups, only difference he is 100kg heavier, yet he is doing frequent 1:18's, so yes the car is capable. Though he does have big brake kit and I have openly said I need a big brake kit and to improve as a driver to get to the 1:18 region, but the car will indeed be capable, I will be happy to get below 1:22 and give myself a comfort zone.

What Scooby is this, if its so easy to find on youtube, then how come you can't post that youtube video here or a link to it? Once again you fail to prove what you say.



Here is a video of an M3 CSL, STOCK, no modifications, running 1:18's around Donnington with a none professional driver, not driven perfectly but good with traffic:-




So Blade took the above CSL, removed 100kg and changed to full slicks, plus he is a pro driver, he achieved 1:12 in full dry over a stock car with a none professional driver, that is rather plausible.











Over to you DG, lets see your videos with spec of the these sub 400BHP Impreza do these claimed laptimes you speak off.
I see you've switched from EVO's to Imprezas now.
Clutching at straws are we?
 
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Gibbo said:
Factual evidence. No bum gravy here and I provided you the actual link with such evidence, did you just decide to not click it and read it?
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Gibbo said:
No bum gravy from me m8, just hardcore facts!
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Well, not quite from what I can see. Where's your factual "no bum gravy" evidence coming from? An internet forum post? Some You Tube video's?

I will give you some facts (i.e. official timing):

TA Lap Record: 01.12.546 - Impreza (no idea of spec but if TA lap record holder, it will be bonkers) -

Ginetta G50: 01.13.779 - G50 GT4 Spec in British GT - April 2013

So, you said, in your own words:

Gibbo said:
He purchased an M3 CSL and all he did was sort the suspension. removed 100kg from the car getting it down too 1250kg and he left the power standard. He beat his EVO time by 3s, a 1:12 with nearly half the power.
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Although, I see from your last post we're now throwing in slicks and a Pro Driver. What else, AP's or Alcons? Supercharged? Drenth sequential?

If you are going to try and mock someone, and DG's made it easy for folk to do that so far, then you have to at least have facts. I can see no more "facts" in what you're saying.

Do you know the full spec of the CSL and do you have any timing info over and above "a guy told me"? Do you really think a CSL with a bit of weight saving and some decent coilovers is matching the TA lap record and beating a GT4 Spec G50 round the same track? You know your cars, does that sound realistic to you? It doesn't to me.

Is all pointless arguing anyway on a non-topic, but I think it's only fair that if you have a go at someone, you have some substance to it and I can't see any so far. Please convince me.
 
HummuH1 said:
Well, not quite from what I can see. Where's your factual "no bum gravy" evidence coming from? An internet forum post? Some You Tube video's?

I will give you some facts (i.e. official timing):

TA Lap Record: 01.12.546 - Impreza (no idea of spec but if TA lap record holder, it will be bonkers) -

Ginetta G50: 01.13.779 - G50 GT4 Spec in British GT - April 2013

So, you said, in your own words:



Although, I see from your last post we're now throwing in slicks and a Pro Driver. What else, AP's or Alcons? Supercharged? Drenth sequential?

If you are going to try and mock someone, and DG's made it easy for folk to do that so far, then you have to at least have facts. I can see no more "facts" in what you're saying.

Do you know the full spec of the CSL and do you have any timing info over and above "a guy told me"? Do you really think a CSL with a bit of weight saving and some decent coilovers is matching the TA lap record and beating a GT4 Spec G50 round the same track? You know your cars, does that sound realistic to you? It doesn't to me.

Is all pointless arguing anyway on a non-topic, but I think it's only fair that if you have a go at someone, you have some substance to it and I can't see any so far. Please convince me.
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The guy on the other forum "Blade" is the owner of said EVO and M3 CSL. He says to get equal and better lap times in his CSL it was running 380BHP, Slick tyres and had 100kg removed from it, he would have cause upgrade the brakes as the CSL stock brakes are poor, I'd suspect he'd updated the suspension to coilovers as well, though he makes no mention but I'd expect that. My point is his CSL was 100kg heavier, over 200BHP down on his EVO and yet the M3 was quicker, that's what were arguing here, M3's are quicker on track. Hell Simpsons Motorsport have a sub 1:10 car, its on their website, I've linked to it previously.

The specification of his EVO was 558BHP, Slicks, Ohlins, BBK, Caged, reduced to 1150kg.

He owned both, he is a pro driver, he drove both. The CSL was faster for him with less modifications/money spent. Maybe you missed this very clear point, he OWNED/OWNS both, same driver, same tracks, he found his M3 quicker and it did not take as much money/effort to get it faster.

Seems quite substance for me, why would he lie when he owns/owned both cars?

Where is DG's claims of 1:19's EVO or Scoobs with less than 400BHP which are road cars?

I just posted a CSL doing 1:18 with lap timing software, at least I am trying to back it up with a video of a trackday enthusiast who managed a 1:18 in traffic. Are you telling me if that car was 100kg lighter, on slicks, bigger brakes, race tuned suspension would not be faster again, also add in a pro driver it would be faster again. Blade has claimed a 1:12, that is 6s faster than the car in the video which is driven by a none pro and stock.

Tell you what my mates Honda Civic CTR has done Donnington in 1:15 as well, it was not hugely modified and I have no videos or links by him on other forums or others who had seen it. But it did it, honest......



Facts are my 911 is faster on track, if I took 150-200kg from it, fitted slicks, pushed the power to 500BHP+ it would be faster than the M3 and would take relatively less work, as only expense would be buckets, a set of slicks, power would be huge money unless I supercharged it for around 6k. Why did I not do this? Engine reliability is poor, engines cost huge money. So it cost less to buy and prepare an M3 than buying an engine for a 911. Plus the 911 is way to nice to go and strip. My point being the 911 is naturally the quicker track car, just like the M3 is naturally the quicker track car than an EVO/Scoob.
 
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A good CSL with a good driver I think would be in the 1:17's. Most of the CSL's out there have upgraded brakes and springs, certainly most of the regulars on CSL Register, many of who can peddle well but not sure there is such a thing as a standard CSL these days, though the mods tend not to be major as they are bang track day cars anyway.
 
Housey said:
A good CSL with a good driver I think would be in the 1:17's. Most of the CSL's out there have upgraded brakes and springs, certainly most of the regulars on CSL Register, many of who can peddle well but not sure there is such a thing as a standard CSL these days, though the mods tend not to be major as they are bang track day cars anyway.
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Yep, when I owned my CSL the weakness was the brakes and all the CSL's I see on track tend to have AP's or Alcons. :)

I know some of the CSL guys also go with nitron suspension too, though like you say some find the BMW suspension adequate as its a well setup car. Additional power is very hard, 20BHP to be gained at most which cost 2-3k, so its more worthwhile if power is a must, just fit a charger for about 6k and have 500+ :D

Fancy coming to Donnington on 16th March, gonna be a few CSL's there, one is super-charged too? :eek:
 
Rossi~ said:
@ DG - If that's Kevin and a scooby clinic time attack car, i doubt it was driven badly...
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no its not a time attack car pretty standard.

time attack scooby did 1:12 at donnington.

still dont think his car is stock and did a 1:12 see if you can find spec of the csl.
 
~>Dg<~ said:
no its not a time attack car pretty standard.

time attack scooby did 1:12 at donnington.

still dont think his car is stock and did a 1:12 see if you can find spec of the csl.
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Have you any actual experience or are you simply quoting stuff off the internet?
 
Gibbo said:
Yep, when I owned my CSL the weakness was the brakes and all the CSL's I see on track tend to have AP's or Alcons. :)

I know some of the CSL guys also go with nitron suspension too, though like you say some find the BMW suspension adequate as its a well setup car. Additional power is very hard, 20BHP to be gained at most which cost 2-3k, so its more worthwhile if power is a must, just fit a charger for about 6k and have 500+ :D

Fancy coming to Donnington on 16th March, gonna be a few CSL's there, one is super-charged too? :eek:
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will you video the next time you go?

be nice to see your driving . :cool:
 
~>Dg<~ said:
no its not a time attack car pretty standard.

time attack scooby did 1:12 at donnington.

still dont think his car is stock and did a 1:12 see if you can find spec of the csl.
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All I know is he was timed doing 1:16 in the damp at Donnington on slicks, which is pretty damn impressive to be honest. He claimed he thinks the car has a 1:12 in it, I would agree this is ambitious, more like 1:13-1:14 on a dry track comfortably. Still this is a pro driver but its his own personal car and he also owns that stupidly tuned EVO which he has said is slower than the CSL. Why would he lie, he owns/owned them both.

He is an actual owner who is a race driver, he knows how to extract the best from his car and he got the M3 to go faster with less expenditure.

Only Simpsons to my knowledge have gone sub 1:10 in an M3, but its a race car, very expensive and race driven, that's on their website and you could not drive it on the road if you tried and would not be legal.
 
well i read this from blade

It has been along time since we talked about lap times at Donington.

The best I ever managed was 1m21 in my EVO (then with 500bhp, slicks and 1250kgs), although a proper driver managed 1m19 in the same car.

I was shocked to find my CSL doing 1m21 around Donington last week (with me driving) and 1m20 with a pro, with more to come as we really were not pushing the car to the limit.

hmmm maybe not the time you said :p
 
~>Dg<~ said:
will you video the next time you go?

be nice to see your driving . :cool:
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Ive got video's to post up from at the weekend, had to use my phone which unfortunately ran out of battery early on, but I have some early laps before I got upto speed, but even in those I seem to be hovering around 1:24 which to be frank I am over the moon with, the cars brakes were mullered. Will get them posted at weekend, takes a while to upload them.
 
~>Dg<~ said:
well i read this from blade

It has been along time since we talked about lap times at Donington.

The best I ever managed was 1m21 in my EVO (then with 500bhp, slicks and 1250kgs), although a proper driver managed 1m19 in the same car.

I was shocked to find my CSL doing 1m21 around Donington last week (with me driving) and 1m20 with a pro, with more to come as we really were not pushing the car to the limit.

hmmm maybe not the time you said :p
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DG whats this then:-

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/type-r/68073-fn2-vs-evo-3.html#post1094055

Having owned a 600bhp EVO 6 track car (with Ohlins suspension and all sorts) which could lap Donington in 1m15 I can tell you that the big issue with a high power turbo track car is lag/sudden torque increase. You cannot set the car up gear wise to work on every corner, the result being you end up being unable to properly balance the car on the throttle or being able to progressively accelerate out of the apex or through a long curve, which ultimately costs lap time. A lesser powered car can lap the same or quicker if it is able to get the power down in the right places. My EVO weighed 1180kgs and lapped Snett (back then) in 1m16 on slicks. My M3 CSL weighing in at 1320kgs with just 360bhp lapped in the same time (also on slicks). Getting the CSL to the same sort of development as the EVO (with only 380bhp and weighing 1250kgs) and we were in the 1m12s. Similar lap time at Donington also.

The key to a quick lap and to extract the maximum in any car is to be either accelerating or braking at all times, and never coasting. With a high power turbo, you are forced to coast or be off boost just to make the car controllable, never mind the traction issues of high torque application in a slow corner. It all adds up to lost time.

Normally aspirated cars are always the best, and progressive power as in the form of a centrifugal supercharger is the next best as to all intents it is just like a larger capacity normally aspirated car.

There is somewhere you can go next Lee, and that is to take weight out of the car. That is the big advantage you have over a 4wd car is that you can get significantly lower in weight. A stripped out caged FN2 can be as low as 1000kgs, but a stripped out EVO5 will struggle to get below 1150kgs.

The other interesting thing with the EVO is that, unless it is an RS model, most don't have a proper front diff (just an open diff), so with more power they really struggle with understeer. In a circuit car, there isn't that much of an advantage with 4wd over fwd in the wet.





That's Blade talking about his EVO and CSL.

I think he clearly says there the M3 CSL was quicker and easier to get even faster as well.

I am guessing what your quoting was his first time out in the CSL, he states in your very own thread, he was not pushing it, so am guessing was when he first had it, so maybe standard with road tyres and stock brakes. He obviously found a lot more speed in the car after owning it a while. Afterall it takes more skill to pedal RWD fast at the limits compared to 4WD. :)

I am a member on MLR, but he might be at Donnington on 16th, if so I shall chat with him and he can post up here the spec of both cars and his laptimes, but he clearly does state, M3 was quicker and easier to get there.


P.S. How many trackdays have you done and what car do you own?
 
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Gibbo said:
The guy on the other forum "Blade" is the owner of said EVO and M3 CSL. He says to get equal and better lap times in his CSL it was running 380BHP, Slick tyres and had 100kg removed from it, he would have cause upgrade the brakes as the CSL stock brakes are poor, I'd suspect he'd updated the suspension to coilovers as well, though he makes no mention but I'd expect that. My point is his CSL was 100kg heavier, over 200BHP down on his EVO and yet the M3 was quicker, that's what were arguing here, M3's are quicker on track. Hell Simpsons Motorsport have a sub 1:10 car, its on their website, I've linked to it previously.

The specification of his EVO was 558BHP, Slicks, Ohlins, BBK, Caged, reduced to 1150kg.

He owned both, he is a pro driver, he drove both. The CSL was faster for him with less modifications/money spent. Maybe you missed this very clear point, he OWNED/OWNS both, same driver, same tracks, he found his M3 quicker and it did not take as much money/effort to get it faster.

Seems quite substance for me, why would he lie when he owns/owned both cars?

Where is DG's claims of 1:19's EVO or Scoobs with less than 400BHP which are road cars?

I just posted a CSL doing 1:18 with lap timing software, at least I am trying to back it up with a video of a trackday enthusiast who managed a 1:18 in traffic. Are you telling me if that car was 100kg lighter, on slicks, bigger brakes, race tuned suspension would not be faster again, also add in a pro driver it would be faster again. Blade has claimed a 1:12, that is 6s faster than the car in the video which is driven by a none pro and stock.

Tell you what my mates Honda Civic CTR has done Donnington in 1:15 as well, it was not hugely modified and I have no videos or links by him on other forums or others who had seen it. But it did it, honest......

Facts are my 911 is faster on track, if I took 150-200kg from it, fitted slicks, pushed the power to 500BHP+ it would be faster than the M3 and would take relatively less work, as only expense would be buckets, a set of slicks, power would be huge money unless I supercharged it for around 6k. Why did I not do this? Engine reliability is poor, engines cost huge money. So it cost less to buy and prepare an M3 than buying an engine for a 911. Plus the 911 is way to nice to go and strip. My point being the 911 is naturally the quicker track car, just like the M3 is naturally the quicker track car than an EVO/Scoob.
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So your whole justification IS based on what some bloke on the internet says.

Ignore anything else and just answer the question above:

HummuH1 said:
Do you really think a CSL with a bit of weight saving and some decent coilovers is matching the TA lap record and beating a GT4 Spec G50 round the same track?
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The fastest lap I can find for a CSL at Donnington is 1.12.151. That was in Britcar Production, so I would imagine has had a bit more work done to it than a bit of weight saving, suspension and brakes.
 
Clarkey said:
Must be some kind of pilot to get a 318is around in 1.20 :eek:
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Yep I notice a CSL in 1:16 something and a regular M3 in 1:17, that is very impressive if these guys are *NOT* on slicks and are adding weight or some how de-tuning to stay within the regulations.

No wonder some of lighter M3 guys with slicks who are not bound by regulations are putting in some bloody fast times. :)
 
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