Chances of UKIP winning General Election?

[balky12]

Haha - I doubt £billions is spent installing piled foundations to the bottom of the sea, laying down 100s of km of access tracks and cables and something which has a 20 life span. I think they intend to reuse this infrastructure for replacement turbines

Wind power is here to stay.

Windpower will be, once they crack how to store electricity efficiently. At the moment, from my understanding, it's terribly inefficient. It surves a purpose, but not well.

Also i don't think it's just turbines that need replacing... nothing has much of a lifespan out at sea.

 

[matt100]

You touched on a lot there.

Regarding if everyone thinks like that then nothing gets done. True. But honestly, would you want to live next to a massive wind farm, creating constant noise, constantly having maintenance, very little in the way of wildlife? etc.

Re the blame culture, that is part of the miserable world we live in. It resonates deeper than this subject. Accidents do not happen anymore, someone is always to blame!

Can you blame people for looking after number one? Nowadays it is the only person you can really rely on. No such things as communities, not anything near what this country was like during WWII. Back then people rallied and helped out one another. People may put that down to immigration?

We as a nation do have an immigration and benefit problem. If you deny that you need to take your rose tinted specs off. That's why UKIP is so appealing at the moment, because they are making the right noises. I am not a fan of theirs at all, but i can see why they are getting votes. Come the next GE they will be nowhere so it’s irrelevant. We have 3rd 4th 5th generation benefit claimers that have known nothing else. Single teenage mums by the thousands that can't wait to have their own flat and all they need is to pop out a baby.

It's a home grown problem as well. We have inherently lazy Brits who blame migrants with better work ethics for taking their jobs.

Regarding the whole borders thing. Depends where you are coming from. I was born in the UK. I work and pay taxes to help run the UK and pay for services I use. Whilst I don't have a problem with people migrating to this country, my problem lies in people coming over here and taking advantage of our generosity, not contributing, nor having anything to offer. It's like me going into my next door neighbours and watching his TV, eating his food, using his water. Likewise I wouldn't expect to go to Dubai or NZ or America and expect a house, and money to live off.

The world is ugly. Life is short. Get on with it.

To be clear I accept that we have an immigration problem, a worklessness problem, a climate problem, an EU bloat problem etc etc.

I just don't accept that knee jerk rejectionist policies are a way to resolve any of these issues.

And on the benefits thing.. wouldn't it be good if we could do a swap? I'd happily have hard working people here if we could somehow remove some of the happy on benefits sorts.

I don't know the numbers but I'd be prepared to make a substantial bet that the benefits bill from home grown ****less idiots absolutely eclipses anything we pay out on benefit tourism which in itself is definitely a problem but we're distracting ourselves from the bigger issues with smaller ones.

I'd love to hear a party (with a realistic chance of election just in case UKIP have said this lol! The Nazis made great roads.. still don't want to support!) tackling how we're going to pay for the vast numbers of old people living way longer than expected, why my partner and I with a reasonably significant joint income have pretty much no chance of ever owning a home etc etc.

Not "people different to me are bad, send them back and it'll all be better".

There's lots of issues and we're all dancing around them, I'd just rather have the option of a more positive view than the lock the doors and windows and protect whats mine view.

 

[Sunbed]

Windpower will be, once they crack how to store electricity efficiently. At the moment, from my understanding, it's terribly inefficient. It surves a purpose, but not well.

Also i don't think it's just turbines that need replacing... nothing has much of a lifespan out at sea.

Regarding energy storage, I couldn't agree more. I posted a link to a podcast on energy storage from BBC Radio 4 a couple of weeks ago in the other energy/climate change thread. Well worth a listen!

 

[balky12]

To be clear I accept that we have an immigration problem, a worklessness problem, a climate problem, an EU bloat problem etc etc.

I just don't accept that knee jerk rejectionist policies are a way to resolve any of these issues.

And on the benefits thing.. wouldn't it be good if we could do a swap? I'd happily have hard working people here if we could somehow remove some of the happy on benefits sorts.

I don't know the numbers but I'd be prepared to make a substantial bet that the benefits bill from home grown ****less idiots absolutely eclipses anything we pay out on benefit tourism which in itself is definitely a problem but we're distracting ourselves from the bigger issues with smaller ones.

I'd love to hear a party (with a realistic chance of election just in case UKIP have said this lol! The Nazis made great roads.. still don't want to support!) tackling how we're going to pay for the vast numbers of old people living way longer than expected, why my partner and I with a reasonably significant joint income have pretty much no chance of ever owning a home etc etc.

Not "people different to me are bad, send them back and it'll all be better".

There's lots of issues and we're all dancing around them, I'd just rather have the option of a more positive view than the lock the doors and windows and protect whats mine view.

+1 agree totally.

Touched on a topic that I discuss with my mates occasionally, people living longer than they 'should' (please im using that term loosely). I have been called barbaric and a nazi for this, but truth is with the advancement in medicine, it's only going to get worse. Once they cure cancer, it will be horrific. People with serious medical conditions are now living longer, perhaps even bearing children, sometimes who have the same conditions. I am not saying these people should and must die... but way back when, they did.

I live in the South East, 25 and still with parents, reasonable income. I am nowhere near to the point of moving out financially.

 

[Mr. Pickle]

Whilst I don't know the ins and outs, I think if we're to take something like this seriously people need to accept they might have to see whats making their power. This sort of nimbyism is really frustrating.

I'd love to be able to se a field or a spot of sea full of massive wind turbines.. it's impressive, like a skyscraper!

Onshore wind farms are a complete and utter waste of time. They are smaller, often built in terrible places, and in general the wind profile on land is awful for wind power.

Offshore wind turbines rarely turn off. 100m above sea level 20km out at sea the wind is almost ALWAYS blowing. Onshore 50m hub height with loads of disturbance in the terran - you will often see them not working.

They are doing nothing other than to serve rich landowners. Farage is right on onshore wind turbines - I don't know what his policy is on the rest of it, but for not wanting onshore wind turbines he is absolutely correct.

 

[matt100]

Its the same thing.. basically people insisting they retire able bodied at 65.

Part 1 is keep working, part 2 is then figure out some way of employing younger people, part 3 is build tons of decent houses then sell them off at a sensible price to peg back house price inflation.

Frankly, as attractive as it seems (ie too good to be true) a 20 hour week might actually be the answer along with slowly declining living standards.

But nobody wants to talk about that, old people vote and rightly so they shouldn't have the rug pulled from underneath them but the way even my mum has whinged about having to retire a couple of years later.. I can get bored of an evening.. I'm working NOW and I'm bored.

God knows what I would be like if I stopped working! Especially if I threw being homeless and broke in for the lols.

 

[RedvGreen]

Its the same thing.. basically people insisting they retire able bodied at 65.

Part 1 is keep working, part 2 is then figure out some way of employing younger people, part 3 is build tons of decent houses then sell them off at a sensible price to peg back house price inflation.

Frankly, as attractive as it seems (ie too good to be true) a 20 hour week might actually be the answer along with slowly declining living standards.

But nobody wants to talk about that, old people vote and rightly so they shouldn't have the rug pulled from underneath them but the way even my mum has whinged about having to retire a couple of years later.. I can get bored of an evening.. I'm working NOW and I'm bored.

God knows what I would be like if I stopped working! Especially if I threw being homeless and broke in for the lols.

You'd possibly resort to either crime or riots against those with power/money.
Of course, with an ever increasing population, and ever decreasing military and police presence, there will sadly only be one victor in such an escalation.

 

[balky12]

I can't see us ever retiring unless you are sensible and build a decent pension pot. The average person wil lwork till they die imo.

On the housing front. It will never get fixed...

Potential Government: 'We will fix the housing crisis, we will build loads of new homes to meet demand!!!!'

Home Owners: 'And at the same time devalue my house by potentially 10's or 100's of thousands? That forms a massive part of my retirement plan!!! No vote for you!'

 

[Tunney]

After a quick run around the internet re wind power, today, it's not currently economically viable. Problems include cost to build the infrastructure. Seeing as most people do not want these in eye shot they have to be built in remote areas or out at sea, requiring huge investment, often not paying off themselves before they need to be replaced.

The other problem is lifespan, which relates to the above. They need to last around 25/30 years before being replaced. Biggest problem is micro pitting.

So the problems with wind turbines are that no-one wants to live next to one and that they eventually need replacing?

Can you name me a source of energy that doesn't have these problems? Nuclear power stations rarely have a shelf life of over 40 years.

 

[elmarko]

Its the same thing.. basically people insisting they retire able bodied at 65.

Part 1 is keep working, part 2 is then figure out some way of employing younger people, part 3 is build tons of decent houses then sell them off at a sensible price to peg back house price inflation.

Frankly, as attractive as it seems (ie too good to be true) a 20 hour week might actually be the answer along with slowly declining living standards.

But nobody wants to talk about that, old people vote and rightly so they shouldn't have the rug pulled from underneath them but the way even my mum has whinged about having to retire a couple of years later.. I can get bored of an evening.. I'm working NOW and I'm bored.

God knows what I would be like if I stopped working! Especially if I threw being homeless and broke in for the lols.

Indeed, a reduced standard working week (4 days as a start) is a good potential way of reducing unemployment.

I mean, not to sound like a Luddite - but there is no fixed rule within the system of technological progression which guarantees a certain level of employment. As society has changed we've already seen a reduction in the average working hours, it seems reasonable to assume as we progress further this trend will continue.

A full participatory economy, with close to 100% employment (or at least the potential for which) - would yield huge social benefits, reduced crime, poor reductions in both standard health & mental health.

 

[ElliorR]

It does make me smile when people post things like "I don't want to live in this country anymore" no matter what their ideological standpoint is. We have free movement within the EU and it'd be nice and ironic if a UKIP supporter took advantage of this.

 

[RedvGreen]

Indeed, a reduced standard working week (4 days as a start) is a good potential way of reducing unemployment.

I mean, not to sound like a Luddite - but there is no fixed rule within the system of technological progression which guarantees a certain level of employment. As society has changed we've already seen a reduction in the average working hours, it seems reasonable to assume as we progress further this trend will continue.

A full participatory economy, with close to 100% employment (or at least the potential for which) - would yield huge social benefits, reduced crime, poor reductions in both standard health & mental health.

People are throwing around this 4-day working week, yet what happens with the work that needs doing on that 1 remaining day? Why not just have a 24/7 workforce split into 4 shifts morning 3.5days, evening 3.5 days?

 

[balky12]

So the problems with wind turbines are that no-one wants to live next to one and that they eventually need replacing?

Can you name me a source of energy that doesn't have these problems? Nuclear power stations rarely have a shelf life of over 40 years.

Next time quote my whole post.

Nuclear Power plants have atleast 40 years in them, not 'rarely'. Modern plants in America have a life expectancy of ~100 years. Also, I think a Nuclear Power plant will create far more electricity in it's life time than a wind farm.

Now let's go back to the part that you left out. Nuclear Power plants can generate electricity on demand. Wind farms can't. When wind turbines are creating electricity that perhaps isn't needed, you can not store it.

 

[aardvark]

slowly declining living standards.

its the elephant in the room that nobody can mention - politicians certainly can't, it would be political suicide.

everybody is going to have to work harder for less and those on freebies are going to have to pull their own weight - its inevitable.
nobody is going to like it but then they wont get the choice.

 

[antijoke]

There so many issues it's practically impossible to come up with any sort of solution. Any party who decided to chase those causes would have no chance of delivering anything they'd promise. That's why none of the parties talk about it.

 

[RedvGreen]

There so many issues it's practically impossible to come up with any sort of solution. Any party who decided to chase those causes would have no chance of delivering anything they'd promise. That's why none of the parties talk about it.

... because people abhor change.

The millionaire businessmen are happy raking in there cash; the workers are happy just to have a job and don't want to rock the boat; most of the public are/feel voiceless... and the politicians are pretty much securing their own assets stealthily.

 

[balky12]

its the elephant in the room that nobody can mention - politicians certainly can't, it would be political suicide.

everybody is going to have to work harder for less and those on freebies are going to have to pull their own weight - its inevitable.
nobody is going to like it but then they wont get the choice.

Spot on.

The truth of it. The vast majority of those living off the state would have died back in the day when there were no such things as benefits.

We have a growing benefit population and my guess is it's growing faster than the non-benefit population. (Due to lack of education? Ability to have more kids and support them because of the state? Nothing else to do at home apart from watch Jeremy Kyle?)

What happens when the hard workers can't afford to subsidies these people?

The real losers are those who ACTUALLY NEED benefits.

 

[ci_newman]

*snip*

I live in the South East, 25 and still with parents, reasonable income. I am nowhere near to the point of moving out financially.

You can't be on a reasonable income and not be in a financial situation to move into your own / rented home. More likely is you spend too much money on disposable waste (your thread posting history suggests you spend a fair amount of money on PC upgrades for example).

I'm only 28, but I've owned (mortgaged) my own home since the house-price peaks in 2007. For the first few years, I had no disposable income at all.

You might not be ready to make the financial sacrifice that would be required to move out of your family home, but if you have a reasonable wage then you can afford it.

A reasonable salary is of course subjective.

 

[elmarko]

Spot on.

The truth of it. The vast majority of those living off the state would have died back in the day when there were no such things as benefits.

Actually extreme poverty tends to increase population growth.

Of course you would know this had you done any research.

We have a growing benefit population and my guess is it's growing faster than the non-benefit population. (Due to lack of education? Ability to have more kids and support them because of the state? Nothing else to do at home apart from watch Jeremy Kyle?)

Partially correct.

We have a percentage of the population who are indeed less successful & may rely on state handouts & they are indeed likely to have more children - the thing is the proposed solution you suggest is utterly at odds with all the available evidence.

What happens when the hard workers can't afford to subsidies these people?

The real losers are those who ACTUALLY NEED benefits.

If we want to solve the problem of long term unemployment, benefits dependency & population growth then punitive measures will not achieve the desired result (quite the opposite).

I'd also expect the money 'saved' from slashing benefits to be lost in the increased health problems, crime & psychological illness which will boom as a result of that action.

 

[antijoke]

... because people abhor change.

The millionaire businessmen are happy raking in there cash; the workers are happy just to have a job and don't want to rock the boat; most of the public are/feel voiceless... and the politicians are pretty much securing their own assets stealthily.

I guess that's another issue, it's one thing to say you don't like X issue, but dealing with it head on and changing that problem, not sure how many people would want to go through with it if push came to shove.

My main concern at the exact moment in time is house prices.