Soldato
Death by PowerPoint and the worst instant coffee I've ever had
The Militaria Thread: Collecting and Identification
- Thread starter Edrof
- Start date
Caporegime
Always thought about picking up a few deacts after seeing a mates collection. Off the top of my head are a few he owns
M1A1 Thompson
1921 drum mag Thompson
Mosin nagant
Colt M1911 .45
Bren gun
Tripod mounted MG42 machine gun
Think the MG42 is a yugoslavian copy though.
M1A1 Thompson
1921 drum mag Thompson
Mosin nagant
Colt M1911 .45
Bren gun
Tripod mounted MG42 machine gun
Think the MG42 is a yugoslavian copy though.
Man of Honour
Edrof, I've got an old WWI dog tag I think. My wife was sorting through her grandmother's bits after she died. She found quite a lot of things. Some stuff dating back to the Boer war. Also, a very interesting piece of cloth with a letter scribbled hastily on it talking about going to a place in south Africa and fighting. Can't remember all the details now but quite poignant.
Soldato
granddad gave me these. No story with them unfortunately
Holy moly. I recognise them both - fantastic stuff! Do you know what they are?
I'd love to see them if you have any pics floating about.
Genuine? Must be worth quite a bit by now.
I'd love to see them if you have any pics floating about.
Genuine? Must be worth quite a bit by now.
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Hi chaps! Thought I’d post another item for your goodly perusal. This is something I added to the purchases thread a while back, but I can give more detail about it here.
This is a genuine 1845 Pattern British infantry officer's sabre. This style of hilt was brought into service in 1822 (for context, the Battle of Waterloo was 1815) with a pipeback blade that was deemed a bit rubbish so, in 1845, they swapped the blade for this fullered type as designed by Wilkinson (the same company that now makes fancy razors). This Pattern saw real action in various wars around the world and was used in anger. Even though firearms becoming extremely effective at killing, swords remained in use up until the First World War. Personally, I think this is one of the most beautiful patterns of sword ever made.
Context: here’s Michael Caine carrying his ’45 Pattern in the film Zulu.
The brass ‘Gothic hilt’ is so-named due to the supposed similarity between the shape of the bars of the guard and the arches found in Gothic architecture. The unsharpened section of the blade near the hilt is called the ricasso. Where the ricasso meets the hilt there should be an oval, leather washer to keep the weather out of the scabbard, but this has been lost here. The curly bit of the guard on the right is the quillon.
In those days, you'd have to visit a tailor to buy your uniform and provide your own kit. Often, the tailors would also commission swordmakers to supply your weapon: sort of a one-stop-shop for war. This sabre came from just such a supplier: Joel Edwards & Sons of Hanover Square, London. Edwards' mark is etched onto the ricasso, but the photos don't show it very well. Eagle-eyed GDers might notice the hinged section of the inner guard. This was made to allow that part to fold flat in order to stop it fraying the tunic. There's a better illustration of this function in the final photograph.
This picture shows the oval cartouche that depicts Queen Victoria's cipher (an elaborate VR). You can also see the brass proofing ‘slug’ - supposedly a mark of quality that was initially brought in by Wilkinson (I think) and then copied by other makers.
The blade is single-edged (the sharp edge is called the 'true edge'. the unsharpened back is the 'false edge'), and acid-etched with floral motifs and Queen Victoria's royal cipher. This is an antique, so the blade has some corrosion to it and in the following picture you can see the verdigris on the brass hilt which I still haven't decided to clean off or not. Top tip: if anyone hands you a proper sword please try not to touch the blade as finger marks will corrode the metal. This is because real blades are made from high-carbon steel. You can protect your blade with oil or (my favourite) Renaissance Wax. The Wax dulls the blade a little, but protection is more important.
The grip is made from fish skin and bound with metal wire. The brass strip to the rear of the grip is called a backstrap and, in later models, was chequered to allow for a better hold.
The sabre's last quarter or so would be sharpened into what's termed a 'spear point' for the thrust.
It's a long sword, but light in the hands and, to a non-swordsman like me, it feels nimble and quick yet able to deliver a punishing cut. As with most swords that compromise between cut and thrust, it wasn't perfect at either job, but it wasn't a bad weapon all in all. This particular piece doesn’t seem to ever have been service sharpened so I doubt it was carried onto any frontline. As you might be able to tell, I love it – a fantastic bit of history to pick up. You can get similar swords for under £200.
If anyone would like to know more, please ask.
This is a genuine 1845 Pattern British infantry officer's sabre. This style of hilt was brought into service in 1822 (for context, the Battle of Waterloo was 1815) with a pipeback blade that was deemed a bit rubbish so, in 1845, they swapped the blade for this fullered type as designed by Wilkinson (the same company that now makes fancy razors). This Pattern saw real action in various wars around the world and was used in anger. Even though firearms becoming extremely effective at killing, swords remained in use up until the First World War. Personally, I think this is one of the most beautiful patterns of sword ever made.
Context: here’s Michael Caine carrying his ’45 Pattern in the film Zulu.
The brass ‘Gothic hilt’ is so-named due to the supposed similarity between the shape of the bars of the guard and the arches found in Gothic architecture. The unsharpened section of the blade near the hilt is called the ricasso. Where the ricasso meets the hilt there should be an oval, leather washer to keep the weather out of the scabbard, but this has been lost here. The curly bit of the guard on the right is the quillon.
In those days, you'd have to visit a tailor to buy your uniform and provide your own kit. Often, the tailors would also commission swordmakers to supply your weapon: sort of a one-stop-shop for war. This sabre came from just such a supplier: Joel Edwards & Sons of Hanover Square, London. Edwards' mark is etched onto the ricasso, but the photos don't show it very well. Eagle-eyed GDers might notice the hinged section of the inner guard. This was made to allow that part to fold flat in order to stop it fraying the tunic. There's a better illustration of this function in the final photograph.
This picture shows the oval cartouche that depicts Queen Victoria's cipher (an elaborate VR). You can also see the brass proofing ‘slug’ - supposedly a mark of quality that was initially brought in by Wilkinson (I think) and then copied by other makers.
The blade is single-edged (the sharp edge is called the 'true edge'. the unsharpened back is the 'false edge'), and acid-etched with floral motifs and Queen Victoria's royal cipher. This is an antique, so the blade has some corrosion to it and in the following picture you can see the verdigris on the brass hilt which I still haven't decided to clean off or not. Top tip: if anyone hands you a proper sword please try not to touch the blade as finger marks will corrode the metal. This is because real blades are made from high-carbon steel. You can protect your blade with oil or (my favourite) Renaissance Wax. The Wax dulls the blade a little, but protection is more important.
The grip is made from fish skin and bound with metal wire. The brass strip to the rear of the grip is called a backstrap and, in later models, was chequered to allow for a better hold.
The sabre's last quarter or so would be sharpened into what's termed a 'spear point' for the thrust.
It's a long sword, but light in the hands and, to a non-swordsman like me, it feels nimble and quick yet able to deliver a punishing cut. As with most swords that compromise between cut and thrust, it wasn't perfect at either job, but it wasn't a bad weapon all in all. This particular piece doesn’t seem to ever have been service sharpened so I doubt it was carried onto any frontline. As you might be able to tell, I love it – a fantastic bit of history to pick up. You can get similar swords for under £200.
If anyone would like to know more, please ask.
Soldato
Not my photo i might add but i will take one when I'm next at the family home but I have a French Model 1866 "Chassepot" Yataghan Sword Bayonet. Mine is engraved on the back of the sword "Tulle Mai 1874" which is the manufacture details for Tulle Arsenal May 1874
Man of Honour
This is a fantabulous thread. Thanks for starting it.
I have actually posted some pics before on a different thread. I will look them out. I've got dog tags which have drawn a blank (ironically!) - I probably don't really know where to look for such information and a few bits and pieces as said prior. Now my degree has finished I *should* have a little more time to research stuff like this.
This is an intriguing item - I believe it was something to do with rifle alignment?
I have actually posted some pics before on a different thread. I will look them out. I've got dog tags which have drawn a blank (ironically!) - I probably don't really know where to look for such information and a few bits and pieces as said prior. Now my degree has finished I *should* have a little more time to research stuff like this.
This is an intriguing item - I believe it was something to do with rifle alignment?
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Hybrid, my next purchase in the bayonet category is hopefully a Chassepot. I love the form of it.
Strife, that IC is rather lovely - worth quite a bit now, I think?
Phil, that's a nickel-silver rear sight adjustment tool. At first I thought it might be for the Martini Henry breechloader, but I think it was probably for the Lee Metford bolt-action too. Underneath the windage section, is there David Spence's army service number? If so, you might be able to track him down. LRV could be the Lanarckshire Rifle Volunteers?
Google reveals they are called ventometers.
Strife, that IC is rather lovely - worth quite a bit now, I think?
Phil, that's a nickel-silver rear sight adjustment tool. At first I thought it might be for the Martini Henry breechloader, but I think it was probably for the Lee Metford bolt-action too. Underneath the windage section, is there David Spence's army service number? If so, you might be able to track him down. LRV could be the Lanarckshire Rifle Volunteers?
Google reveals they are called ventometers.
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Should it not have the Swastika on it being issued during WWII, or is this one reissued after the war?
www.worldwidearms.com
These guys are excellent if you fancy spending a few quid, the £6 3 x yearly catalouge is well worth the money, website is a bit pony.
I have a Mosin Nagant de activated and a fully functioning .310 Martini Cadet http://www.rifleman.org.uk/BSA_Model_4.html it's an 'Antique' so it's not deactivated, in fact thinking about it I don't know where it is
These guys are excellent if you fancy spending a few quid, the £6 3 x yearly catalouge is well worth the money, website is a bit pony.
I have a Mosin Nagant de activated and a fully functioning .310 Martini Cadet http://www.rifleman.org.uk/BSA_Model_4.html it's an 'Antique' so it's not deactivated, in fact thinking about it I don't know where it is
It'll fire 32-20 handgun ammunition. If I ever get my fac I'd love to see how it shoots.
Man of Honour
Cheers!
David Spence was the cousin of my wife's gran - I'm not sure where he was from or what regiment he was in but it is likely to be northern, as he was Scottish. There are several references to a 5th company L.R.V. but it refers to different regiments including this one http://www.themanchesters.org/lrv.htm
Man of Honour
I've also dug out these photos of the items I was given when my wife's gran passed.
At the Royal Engineers Museum in Chatham, Kent they have the revolver used by Lt John Chard in the battle
It does on the other side.
It's not worth a fortune being 2nd class, worth around £100 I'd say.
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Soldato
Don't have a lot myself, I do have a Bayonet + a medal somewhere I'll have to dig out. Other than that, a couple of photos my uncle took while in the army. May not fit the theme of the thread exactly but some of you might like them:
Anything's welcome here.
An SLR, as featured in the first snap (or FN FAL), is on my shopping list, but they are a bit pricey. Don't think Mrs Edrof would like a mortar in the lounge, though...
Nice set of medals there. I don't recognise some of them - do you know them all?
Thanks for that. Stanley Baker (who played him in the film) had Chard's Victoria Cross which he thought was a copy - it was only after Baker's death that it was proven to be the real thing!
Which Mosin do you have? One of the carbines or the 91/30?
An SLR, as featured in the first snap (or FN FAL), is on my shopping list, but they are a bit pricey. Don't think Mrs Edrof would like a mortar in the lounge, though...
I've also dug out these photos of the items I was given when my wife's gran passed.
Nice set of medals there. I don't recognise some of them - do you know them all?
At the Royal Engineers Museum in Chatham, Kent they have the revolver used by Lt John Chard in the battle
Thanks for that. Stanley Baker (who played him in the film) had Chard's Victoria Cross which he thought was a copy - it was only after Baker's death that it was proven to be the real thing!
Which Mosin do you have? One of the carbines or the 91/30?