Voice your opposition to the Israeli actions for the past 65+ years

[Zethor]

I would like to see how you would feel, if you were on the end of the rule of the fist....

I find it hypocritical that you object morally to Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, yet say that they should just accept it and live with it. The latter seems morally ambiguous at best and at odds with the first statement.

If I were at the end of it, I'd still prefer it because I know what happens to a region when terrorist organisations take over. We've all seen in it in Syria and now Iraq. The Palestinians in Gaza had plenty of time to show they can do things differently, that they can work towards a lawful society but, like other people in the Middle East, they seem to choose terrorists and fundamentalists as leaders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Government_in_Gaza
http://www.jpost.com/National-News/...ckets-as-fighting-soft-occupation-Gaza-363272

As I've said, this is a matter of choosing the lesser evil and, in my view, Israel is just that.

This is quite possibly the worst reply I ever got on this question, lol.

So are Palestinians Animals? The fact that a lot of people died in WW2 makes the current massacre of Palestinians less of an issue? Do you dare to say the same about the holocaust? So if the Palestinians were mighty, I trust it would have been OK with you if they came and occupied your home? You understand that this is what you are telling me with your "right of might" rationale? Do you realise that, unlike those countries who had armies and entered WW2, Palestinians had neither an army nor chose to be enemies with the Zionists, rather it was a thing that was imposed onto them? I'm no history fanatic, but I find your claim that many European countries were reduced to fractions of their original size after WW2 astonishing, surely it can't be many (first time I hear this)? Or maybe these are lands which had previously been illegally concurred by these countries in the first place (hint: which is not the case with Palestine)? Do you realise you are comparing apples to oranges here? These are nations who had, according to you, lost parts of their countries, not got totally displaced by another nation which had refused re-entry of the original people to their homes and which is exerting institutional discrimination, at best, and genocide, at worst, to make the remaining population flee? Who said that what your claimed countries have done is the right thing? Just because some countries have accepted degradation and dishonour means Palestinians have to do the same? Surely, just as "many" countries, according to you, have done so, I'm sure you do know that many countries haven't done so and not doing so as there are/have been many disputed territories and liberation movements across the globe. You see, your comment leaves more questions than answers - have you tried thinking before writing it?

Palestinians are animals, as are all human beings although I didn't compare them to animals, I compared strong humans taking from weak humans to humans taking from animals. I'm not saying what's happening to Palestinians right now is a lesser issue but I don't think it's a genocide either, nor that it can be compared to one.
The path the Palestinians have chosen - bombings, rockets, rioting - is a dead end. Dishonour and degradation mean nothing when you're gone. The Israeli are too strong, their international support is solid too, fighting them is pointless, it just creates more graves in the long term.

They should get right of their extremists and when they must resist, they should do so without violence, using the media in their favour.

http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...s-resist-occupation-by-planting-trees/254228/

Unfortunately, particularly in the past few weeks, they chose violence, even if the Israeli judicial system did its job and found the boy's murderers. The Israeli eventually replied with much deadlier violence (as they usually do.. ) and not much can be done about it. You can't fight fire with fire all the time, even if you are right.

 

[Noughtboy]

I'm not talking about religion I'm talking about Palestine/Israeli conflict. If you want to about "Islamist Terrorists" nut jobs in Nigeria they do not follow the teaching of Islam,go read the Quran see it for yourself here are just a few quotes of what Islam teaches during times of war.

“Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person.” (Sunan Abu Dawud)

"Do not practice treachery or mutilation.(Al-Muwatta)

“Do not kill the monks in monasteries, and do not kill those sitting in places of worship. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)

“Do not destroy the villages and towns, do not spoil the cultivated fields and gardens, and do not slaughter the cattle.” (Sahih Bukhari; Sunan Abu Dawud)

“Do not wish for an encounter with the enemy; pray to God to grant you security; but when you [are forced to] encounter them, exercise patience.” (Sahih Muslim)

“Accustom yourselves to do good if people do good, and to not do wrong even if they commit evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)

So basically what you are saying is that Hamas and the various other "political" parties having broken all six of the above are not followers of Islam and rather that they are Islamic terrorists?

 

[platypus]

I wasn't going to comment even despite some good points in this thread, but this:

Take the land issues to Israeli courts, to the International Court, live within Israel, by their rules. If they can't, they can go to another country.

..is one of the most ludicrous statements I've ever read on the internet.

 

[ak22]

So basically what you are saying is that Hamas and the various other "political" parties having broken all six of the above are not followers of Islam and rather that they are Islamic terrorists?

That was in response to deuse comments and his "Religion should be banned" , I was showing him that Islam does no condone the criminal acts he stated.

I wasn't going to comment even despite some good points in this thread, but this:

..is one of the most ludicrous statements I've ever read on the internet.

I bust out laughing when I first read it.

 

[Sliver]

That was in response to deuse comments and his "Religion should be banned" comment, i was showing him that Islam does no condone the acts he stated.

Yeah, we all know Islam is the religion of peace. That's why they never fly planes into buildings, blow up mosques full of worshipers, send suicide bombers into crowded towns and cities, behead people for apostasy or homosexuality, or for just being a non muslim, riot in the streets and kill people over cartoons etc. etc. Religion of peace right there. It might not condone these acts, as you say, but it sure does carry them out constantly time and time again.

 

[Craterloads]

100% support Palestine, I can't see how anyone objectively or morally couldn't.

According to polls israel is viewed negatively by the majority world wide aside from the US. Even in the UK I think it's a 70/30 split, in fact it has been growing world wide steadily.

 

[Xordium]

..is one of the most ludicrous statements I've ever read on the internet.

As ludicrous as some of the conspiracy theories you believe in? That's some going.

 

[RDM]

The basic Talmudic doctrine includes more than a "super-race" complex(Sound familiar? Think 1930s Germany). It is an "only" race concept. The non-Jew thus ranks as an animal, has no property rights and no legal rights under any code whatever. If lies, bribes or kicks are necessary to get non-Jews under control — that is legitimate. There is only one "sin," and that is anything which will frighten non-Jews and thus make it harder for the Jewish "humans" to get them under control. "Milk the Gentile," is the Talmudic rule, but don't get caught in such a way as to jeopardize Jewish interests. Summarized, Talmudism is the quintesscence of distilled hatred and discrimination — without cause, against non-Jews.

Not sure where this quote was originally from but it does appear almost word for word on the internet on at least one other forum. But I am sure that Stromfront.org is a nice place with only well thought out criticisms...

 

[Sliver]

100% support Palestine, I can't see how anyone objectively or morally couldn't.

So you support the indiscriminate rocket attacks against Israeli civilians ? You must if as you say you are 100% behind Palestine. So morally, you're abhorrent by your own logic.

 

[platypus]

As ludicrous as some of the conspiracy theories you believe in? That's some going.

Which conspiracy theories do I believe in?

 

[Castiel]

If I were at the end of it, I'd still prefer it because I know what happens to a region when terrorist organisations take over. We've all seen in it in Syria and now Iraq. The Palestinians in Gaza had plenty of time to show they can do things differently, that they can work towards a lawful society but, like other people in the Middle East, they seem to choose terrorists and fundamentalists as leaders.

You do realise that The Palestinians are being forcibly removed from their land by the Israeli's...they have no right to return to their own country, they have no access to anything unless Israel give it to them, they have no rights or recourse to Israeli courts or Justice, they have no access to leave Gaza unless given permission by Israel, they have no power, water or basic commodities unless supplied by Israel, The have no building materials, no medical supplies, no services, they have no control over their own revenues, taxation or liberty unless given permission by Israel...they are effectively prisoners, they have been occupied or imprisoned for decades....They have not been given the chance to do anything, to prove anything, they haven't even been given the chance to create a state at all, least of all a viable one....for the Gazan's there has been just one group who has fed them, clothed them, supplied medicines to their children, schooling for their children, soup kitchens for the homeless, shelters for those whose homes have been bombed or taken and the list goes on..and that is Hamas. If Israel was serious about allowing the Palestinians the opportunity and chance to create a viable autonomous state and to become a lawful society then perhaps they should stop giving Hamas the tools it needs to hold control in Gaza, and lets no forget...the West Bank is still having its land taken by Jewish Settlers, and they are not firing rockets at Israel..they went to the courts, Israeli Courts found in favour of the Israeli's, the International Court's found in favour of the Palestinians...Israel refuse to recognise the authority of the UN and the international mandate is has in everything relating to the West Bank and Gaza. And you really think that the Palestinians in Gaza have had the opportunity to show they can do things differently..they haven't had the opportunity to do anything. Israel ensures that they do not. You can choose Israel, but they wont allow you to live in Israel, they wont allow to to live your own life, they wont allow you to leave Gaza or the West Bank, they wont allow you any modicum of self respect or freedom...not one jot. You would live a life of abject poverty and struggle, with little or no hope and if you are lucky enough to leave, you will never be allowed home..no more family, no friends, nothing...you will be disenfranchised and stateless...because the Palestinians have no right of return as far as Israel is concerned...yet any Jew is paid to migrate to Israel and yet a Palestinian born there can never return. And that is the lesser of two evils? Israel have always had it in its power to create a secular and inclusive State and allow the Palestinians to create their own..yet they will not, they will not allow Arabs to return to Palestine or Israel, they will not relinquish East Jerusalem or the Settlements, they have never shown any willingness to seriously consider a two state solution, or even a single secular state and Israeli Arabs (not only Palestinians) are treated with disdain and their rights are continuously under pressure, I don't know if you have ever visited Israel, but perhaps you should.

 

[Craterloads]

So you support the indiscriminate rocket attacks against Israeli civilians ? You must if as you say you are 100% behind Palestine. So morally, you're abhorrent by your own logic.

No I understand desperate people do desperate things. I tend not to judge others sat behind my computer screen attempting to assign morality on to actions committed by people living under siege for 60 years. In fact if I was placed under similar circumstances, as most other people, I couldn't say for certain what my actions would be.

Palestinians are the victims, the right will always be on their side.

 

[Xordium]

Which conspiracy theories do I believe in?

I don't know but this thread is getting boring with the same posts as the other one I was hoping enlighten us with something different. I can but hope.

 

[Sliver]

Palestinians are the victims, the right will always be on their side.

There are victims on both sides. Trying to tot up the death toll in order to assign blame to one side or the other is missing the point completely.

 

[platypus]

I don't know but this thread is getting boring with the same posts as the other one I was hoping enlighten us with something different. I can but hope.

So..you don't know but chose to quote me and try and make me look a foolish conspiracy nut anyway? I haven't posted in the "other thread".

Do you really not see anything ludicrous about the suggestion that Palestinians should either live under Israeli rule (after going through the Israeli court system), or just up sticks, throw everything in the wheely suitcase and move to another country?

 

[Xordium]

So..you don't know but chose to quote me and try and make me look foolish anyway?

Do you really not see anything ludicrous about the suggestion that Palestinians should either live under Israeli rule (after going through the Israeli court system), or just up sticks, throw everything in the wheely suitcase and move to another country?

I just couldn't be bothered to trawl though your posts if I were being honest. I am not as adept at google as some people on here ...

Yes of course it is ludicrous for people to be subjected to that. Would you care to partake in a thread about how the UK government did exactly the same thing to the people who lived on Diego Garcia and continues to do so good old Uncle Sam can have a nice base to attack the middle east and project power into the Indian Ocean from.

Anyway why the hell are you on here where you are now living?!?

 

[Craterloads]

There are victims on both sides. Trying to tot up the death toll in order to assign blame to one side or the other is missing the point completely.

One side did nothing to deserve to be victims, the other travelled thousands of miles to foreign lands to kill/displace another people.

Like I said Palestinians will always have right on their side.

 

[RDM]

Like I said Palestinians will always have right on their side.

Like when they murdered three teenage backpackers?

 

[Xordium]

One side did nothing to deserve to be victims, the other travelled thousands of miles to foreign lands to kill/displace another people.

Like I said Palestinians will always have right on their side.

What are you opinions then on Egypt and their treatment of the Palestinian people? Or do you let them off because they are of the same cloth as you?

 

[Sliver]

Like I said Palestinians will always have right on their side.

So no matter what Palestine do they are always right in your mind ? You've already conceded that their indiscriminate rocket attacks are wrong, so you're already contradicting yourself. How can one nation ALWAYS be right ? Mistakes are made on both sides and at some point both sides are wrong. Nice argument dude, nice argument.