Do you believe in evolution ?

Nitefly · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:17

arknor said:
and if evolution is true we are probably devoloving right now from our dependance on technology

Noooooooooooooooooooo!

Edinho · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:19

Let's see...

Do I believe something thats open, free from dogma, free from political influence, open to experiment, open to change, open to to just about every human being.

Or...

Do I beleive in one book that appeared from a load old writings handed down from heresay.

Tricky one that.

Johnnytoxic · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:19

Freefaller said:
It's okay I wouldn't expect someone like you to.

You read something that makes sense.

** Fingers in ears. la la la la la **

Xordium · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:20

Freefaller said:
That's exactly my take on it.

Most of my friends are well respected scientists most do not believe in any sort of God however all are comfortable and learned enough in their specialities to accept that we do have to assume some 'stuff' before we can start to scientifically explain thing.

One thing these threads, that repeatedly pop up again and again, is that the most vocal religious people tend to have a very poor concept of theology and religious texts whilst the strongest advocates for a total domination for science tend to be the popular science reads or undergraduates.

People who have thought about it and thought about it well have argued themselves into their respective positions tend to not give a stuff as they are happy with their answer. It is almost as if the most of vocal of proponents on both side are actually a tad insecure in the knowledge, incomplete as it is, and therefore project that outwards.

arknor · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:20

Nitefly said:
Noooooooooooooooooooo!

Is the future

big bulbous heads from absorbing the internet.
big eyes from looking at triple screen 4k resolution monitors.
weak skinny bodies from sitting down and letting technology do all the work.
crazy big hands from fondling giant boobs

Johnnytoxic · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:21

I think with most long term believers, the part that prevents them from letting go completely is the many many years they have wasted believing in what nonsense they do.

Too much pride at stake to admit, "What was I thinking..."

So to save face, lets add bits to make the belief still work.

Freefaller · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:23

Johnnytoxic said:
You read something that makes sense.

** Fingers in ears. la la la la la **

It's rather amusing that you think you're making sense.

mrk · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:23

HeadlessChicken said:
The award of common sense? Altho no such thing as scientific 'fact' - just the most well supported theory at the current time

Careful! Someone will be in shortly to go "but it's just a theory, it isn't valid!".

People not knowing the difference between scientific theory and theory in the standard sense are the worst kind of people because even once explained to them they continue to shove their heads up their butts and maybe take a good old sniff at the same time.

Xordium · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:23

Nitefly said:
Noooooooooooooooooooo!

Poor Nitefly this is how normal religious people must feel when fundamentalists steal some aspect and distort it. Except I guess Arknor is strapping a daysack to his body to spread his message so you have to give that to him.

mattyfez · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:28

AI will become the first true god, the irony being that we will create it and it will kill us as we won't be serving any useful purpose in it's view.

And it will probably think we as a species, are quite annoying, much like we see insects, such as the wasp.

Xordium · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:31

I think we are safe from SkyNet for quite some time. Whilst we may already have functional AI for some 'simple' solutions such an all encompassing thing is a long way away.

I like to to think such AI will be like The Culture though and that humans will still have a place and that no matter how advanced the AI may get that there will always be humans that are better just on the basis that there will so many of us that the chances will be that a few of us will always get the right answer.

Freefaller · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:35

Xordium said:
Most of my friends are well respected scientists most do not believe in any sort of God however all are comfortable and learned enough in their specialities to accept that we do have to assume some 'stuff' before we can start to scientifically explain thing.

One thing these threads, that repeatedly pop up again and again, is that the most vocal religious people tend to have a very poor concept of theology and religious texts whilst the strongest advocates for a total domination for science tend to be the popular science reads or undergraduates.

People who have thought about it and thought about it well have argued themselves into their respective positions tend to not give a stuff as they are happy with their answer. It is almost as if the most of vocal of proponents on both side are actually a tad insecure in the knowledge, incomplete as it is, and therefore project that outwards.

I think like all things in life one must remain open minded. I think a faith doesn't detract from intellect or promoted you to an enlightened elite, it just enriches part of my life and something which helps give me a little more structure as well as the softer stuff like a sense of community and generally being that little bit better than I would be otherwise. Whilst I studied physics and engineering at university I was quite happy to follow my faith alongside, and don't find it clashes at all, but I'm not an evangelistic sort, I normally keep private about it, but I like this community and it is part of my life and I don't really mind sharing this aspect of my life. But I won't bang on about it, but this thread is on topic.

For me it runs nicely in parallel to my life, and sometimes intertwines sometimes takes over ( in times of need or when I'm feeling particularly vulnerable) and other times, I know it is there but it is there as almost an ethereal intangible "thing". For me it is a source of comfort, but also gives me the opportunity to think of others and divorce myself of my day to day life.

Does that make me better? No. Does that make me weaker? No. Does it make me unique? No. It's juste an additional a part of my life that I enjoy having.

I marvel at the world and the universe at what we can achieve and do but also what we are so horrid at, and I'm happy to accept we have our own free will, our own development and our own interpretation of life and the universe. What some people see as a third order differential equation, others may see as poetry, others see it as logic, some see it as gobbledygook some see it as something's more "perfect". What's wrong with that? Nothing, it is an interpretation of something that is bigger than the person can understand or accept. So that person takes faith in the science as you mention, others take it in other ways, and some odd creatures like me, can see "God" in some of these incredible moments that our lives give us. Whether it is a fantastic equation, a 14 year old hard knock life kid helping an elderly person across the road, or an amazing sunset. It's all on how you see the world. I happen to see it with an extra dimension.

Does that make me a dreamer or deluded? I don't think so as I'm a perfectly rational human being who lives a comparably normal life to most others, but I'm happy to be classified as such if it gives people a sense of comfort.

mattyfez · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:36

I'd like to think that too, but why would it care? AI has no more reason to care about humans than we do about murdering billions of bacteria every time we wash our hands with soap.

Johnnytoxic · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:41

FreeFaller, you believe because of the comfort it can bring? and the marvel that is a sunset.

I would like to believe too, I'd like the comfort and the knowing that oh this probably isn't it. But I'd rather not believe than to pretend.

Freefaller · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:43

You do what you feel you need to do.

mrk · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:46

mattyfez said:
I'd like to think that too, but why would it care? AI has no more reason to care about humans than we do about murdering billions of bacteria every time we wash our hands with soap.

Pretty much I guess. AI won't be killing us at all if you look at it logically, Sci-Fi is just Sci-Fi in that aspect

It's not a biological thing which only thinks so far ahead. To it we would be minuscule and it would have calculated all possible outcomes far into the future for all of its actions.

We living things feel and have the need/instinct to survive and because of that we'll fight to do just that. An AI that intelligent doesn't and won't ever follow the same warpath as humans have and continue to do so.

Johnnytoxic · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:47

Freefaller said:
You do what you feel you need to do.

What have I said that doesn't make sense. I know you know it makes sense.

Fact is, if you were born in a closed environment with no mention of God etc. You would have no clue of how to be Christian.

I guess you were super lucky to get the chance to follow the correct path.

DoneADougalOnSofa · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:48

Nitefly said:
I think so.

Ok cool.

mrk · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:49

Johnnytoxic said:
What have I said that doesn't make sense. I know you know it makes sense.

Fact is, if you were born in a closed environment with no mention of God etc etc. You would have no clue of how to be Christian.

I guess you were super lucky to get the chance to follow the correct path.

Yeah there are tribes around various parts of the World who have exactly that setting. They have no concept of Christianity or Islam or any other religion. Does that mean they will be stuck in limbo after they die?

Johnnytoxic · 25 Jul 2014 at 23:55

mrk said:
Yeah there are tribes around various parts of the World who have exactly that setting. They have no concept of Christianity or Islam or any other religion. Does that mean they will be stuck in limbo after they die?

That's it, just that sentence alone can make me come to the realisation the stories have no base.

Thanks Mr bible writer, your rules ( some of them ) have served us well to get where we are today. Society can pass down morals to future generations without the need of the backstories and scary supreme beings.