ISIS and Islamic militants - discussion

[DiCe!]

Yes, he would have done.
Without considering all the facts or even the legality- just like Afghanistan/second Gulf war.

At least Obama thinks it through and takes his time before committing his troops to action. Iraq has repeatedly asked the US for help against ISIS- Obama has simply made sure this is the correct course of action, rather than making a knee-jerk reaction. Eminently sensible, really...

If by "spineless", you mean "not an idiot like the previous president", then I agree wholeheartedly.

Agreed.

People are so quick to kick him but he has been great for the US imo.

 

[Amp34]

While we can take a short term 'kill it with fire' type approach to these IS types given the gains they've made recently and the population displacement/potential for even further killings happening now its not necessarily going to be sufficient. Its really down to the Iraqis themselves to sort this out, airstrikes can only achieve so much - it could be helpful to some extent but the US going too far with military action and they're in danger of simply propping up a Shia dominated Iraq. The situation has come about and won't be resolved until the various groups can make a compromise and that means the Shia politicians in power need to not alienate the Sunni groups... currently various Sunni tribal groups are either ambivalent towards or actively supporting IS - without that ambivalence or support IS wouldn't have had anywhere near the success it has had. There really isn't much we can do to help the situation, it is down to the Iraqi govt to compromise. Airstrikes aren't going to make the Sunni groups fell any less disenfranchised the only people who can do that are the Iraqi govt themselves, who's failure to work with them has allowed this to happen.

Agreed there, if it wasn't such a Shia dominated government then perhaps this wouldn't have happened. Unfortunately even under quasi democracy faction over rules the nationality.

Wonder how many curry shops will be short staffed from now on? I hope they kill the lot of them(ISIS)

Eh...? You do know curry comes (mostly) from India right? I know you think alll those "darkies " look the same but still...

 

[Amp34]

isis are to busy making a nuclear bomb since over a month ago

oh and kurdistan are now begging for american help LOL

I find it funny since the stupid kurds had a truce with isis not officially but a truce non the less and wouldn't help the rest of iraq

They didn't have a truce with the IS, rather the Kurds were concentrating on defending their autonomous region from the IS. They class themselves as a seperate entity to Iraq and would rather keep their military force where it can best defend them. Considering its been the most stable, inclusive (for minorities) part of Iraq for a decade it's not an unreasonable idea.

Hopefully the air strikes will ramp up and start helping the Kurdish military effort. This is the kind of intervention the west should be entering, defending stable/democratically elected areas from insurgency.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

I was thinking more tower of hamlets area


(Lmao google has reviews for belmarsh )

Can we ask Obama for a pre-emotive strike on Tower Hamlets just in

 

[gettothechopper]

hopefully this will slow IS down enough for Iraq to sort its life out
nouri al maliki needs to go - and then maybe they can get on with defending themselves

 

[XeNoN89]

Eh...? You do know curry comes (mostly) from India right? I know you think alll those "darkies " look the same but still...

To be fair, a lot of curry houses are Bangladeshi as well

Anyway back to ISIS, as others of said, judging by their actions so far, and their goals it would be good to completely wipe these scumbags out as soon as possible.

 

[The Running Man]

It's interesting the us choose ti act now because isis are so close to the us contracted oil fields in iraq...

 

[Cuchulain]

Is this the USA starting yet another conflict they can't finish?

 

[jumpy]

Who'd have thought removing the dictators jackboot from the throats of so many tribal and sectarian zealots would have had such a disastrous impact, eh?

I cannot believe western governments didn't see this coming - I dare say their diplomats understood the situation quite clearly, but a politician never let such knowledge get in the way of a selfish, shortsighted intervention in an area they made no attempt to understand before rallying the troops for the folks back home.

That said, I'm in two minds about how to deal with this.
The first is to just wash our hands of the whole region and let the arabs, the israelis, the militant shia/sunni and all of the rest irrigate the desert sand with each others blood for as long as it suits them, so long as it is contained within their regional borders.

The second is to continue as we are (not that we have much of a choice now) and do what we can to obliterate as much dangerous extremism in the middle east as we can, by conventional or non-conventional means.

As for the US acting now 'cause of oil innit' ...I'd say control of the regional oil production ending up in the hands of isis would destabilise the region to such an extent, providing isis with even more revenue to expand their particular brand of insanity further - given the means they're hardly going to call it a day now, are they?

This must not be allowed, for many reasons, oil production being only part of a chain that links the future prosperity and economic and social stability of the region, seeing as oil is about all most of the arab countries have worth exporting. After all, about the only other thing the ME has to export abroad is militant, extremist islamic dark age brutality, and we all know how well that's received - like a rotting corpse in the village well, it's bad news for everyone.

 

[Noxia]

It's really depressing at the moment, fighting bloody everywhere.

 

[DoneADougalOnSofa]

Never mind the summary executions of thousands, civilians displaced and murdered, women raped and all that. Or the fact they've ASKED for help.

All about oil, obviously.
Seems to be a sad, automated response every time the US gets involved in anything.

It is also a fact that if the region's oil production fell into the IS' control, you think fuel prices are high now...

 

[McBain]

AMERICA **** YEAH!!!

About time.

 

[Lima]

It's interesting the us choose ti act now because isis are so close to the us contracted oil fields in iraq...

So you would rather the US, who are being asked to help, shouldnt help?.....Because they are being greedy and protecting their interests??

Is this the USA starting yet another conflict they can't finish?

Honestly....

 

[Diesel]

Who'd have thought removing the dictators jackboot from the throats of so many tribal and sectarian zealots would have had such a disastrous impact, eh?

I cannot believe western governments didn't see this coming - I dare say their diplomats understood the situation quite clearly, but a politician never let such knowledge get in the way of a selfish, shortsighted intervention in an area they made no attempt to understand before rallying the troops for the folks back home.

Exactly this. The West backed the wrong horse as soon as things kicked off in Syria (and as is now being proved, in Libya).

 

[Guerrilla]

I hope they can put a stop to the Islamic State and that Iraq can come out of all of this as a stable and peaceful country, but that is an awful lot to ask and is certainly a long way away.

 

[Zethor]

So you would rather the US, who are being asked to help, shouldnt help?.....Because they are being greedy and protecting their interests??



Honestly....

Some of the posters on this forum have taken criticising the US to a whole new level - everything they do or don't do is somehow wrong and "for money".

 

[ubersonic]

I cannot believe western governments didn't see this coming - I dare say their diplomats understood the situation quite clearly, but a politician never let such knowledge get in the way of a selfish, shortsighted intervention in an area they made no attempt to understand before rallying the troops for the folks back home.

Was the same in Iraq, they knew the best option would be to befriend the members of the Baath party (Saddam's party) and to use the Republican guard (Iraqi army) to maintain order in the short term, however the US media had made a big thing of 'Merica defeating the RG so they were stood down (knowing this would lead to civil war within a decade), and once the new puppet regime had full control then banned the Baath party and barred all former members (virtually any Iraqi with university grade education) from holding a position of importance.

 

[Lima]

Who'd have thought removing the dictators jackboot from the throats of so many tribal and sectarian zealots would have had such a disastrous impact, eh?

I cannot believe western governments didn't see this coming - I dare say their diplomats understood the situation quite clearly, but a politician never let such knowledge get in the way of a selfish, shortsighted intervention in an area they made no attempt to understand before rallying the troops for the folks back home.

That said, I'm in two minds about how to deal with this.
The first is to just wash our hands of the whole region and let the arabs, the israelis, the militant shia/sunni and all of the rest irrigate the desert sand with each others blood for as long as it suits them, so long as it is contained within their regional borders.

The second is to continue as we are (not that we have much of a choice now) and do what we can to obliterate as much dangerous extremism in the middle east as we can, by conventional or non-conventional means.

As for the US acting now 'cause of oil innit' ...I'd say control of the regional oil production ending up in the hands of isis would destabilise the region to such an extent, providing isis with even more revenue to expand their particular brand of insanity further - given the means they're hardly going to call it a day now, are they?

This must not be allowed, for many reasons, oil production being only part of a chain that links the future prosperity and economic and social stability of the region, seeing as oil is about all most of the arab countries have worth exporting. After all, about the only other thing the ME has to export abroad is militant, extremist islamic dark age brutality, and we all know how well that's received - like a rotting corpse in the village well, it's bad news for everyone.

Could not agree more. Spot on.

 

[The Running Man]

So you would rather the US, who are being asked to help, shouldnt help?.....Because they are being greedy and protecting their interests??



Honestly....

Had the US not steamrollered so many countries in the area isis wouldn't have evolved and would have been dealt with locally.

Had the US gobe in on humanitarian reasons not purely financial ones then I'd say fine...

 

[scorza]

That said, I'm in two minds about how to deal with this.
The first is to just wash our hands of the whole region and let the arabs, the israelis, the militant shia/sunni and all of the rest irrigate the desert sand with each others blood for as long as it suits them, so long as it is contained within their regional borders.

The second is to continue as we are (not that we have much of a choice now) and do what we can to obliterate as much dangerous extremism in the middle east as we can, by conventional or non-conventional means.

I interpret Obama's actions as basically saying the US will defend the Kurds in Iraq, but the rest of Iraq is a problem for the Iraqi government to deal with. Apparently Maliki (Iraqi PM) has been begging Obama for air strikes against Islamic State but given the terrible job he's been doing and his attitude to the US troops that were stationed in Iraq until recently, it's not surprising that help for him has not been forthcoming.

Part of the problem is the Syrian conflict as well. IS can scoot over the border to Syria if engaged in Iraq, and scoot over to Iraq if they are engaged in Syria.

Summary: looks like the Islamic State is here to stay for a while at least.