Tory Government to take from the poor to give to the old?

craptakular said:
So what is the incentive to work and make your own way in the world?

The reward for not being a lazy drugy is to have a good pension and enjoy life, as you know you earnt it.

Where as benefit schemies, largely do not earn it. Benefits should be categorised by the amount you put it and you cannot claim anything until you reach a threshold of tax payment, why should 16 year old single mums get a free house?
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Because we are investing in her and her child and again we invest in the old as we will one day be old as well. The Tory party in demonising the poor to win the vote of the old who look back to when they were young and think that because there was little support for them that then in turn should be no support for todays young. The abused becoming the abuser, is what the Torys are hoping for.
 
Third Opinion said:
That's not far from what has happened to me. I had a successful IT training business teaching Government officials from the Commonwealth. As it grew I employed other people to train to do my job.

Unfortunately I was struck down with a ruptured stomach ulcer and lost everything as my staff couldn't cope whilst I was in hospital.

After 5 years I earn just under £500 a week but am being told I need to rely on food banks whilst the system sorts out what I should and shouldn't be paying.

All the time I am being told I have to wait the people I have to pay will not, and why should they. In addition I pay child support from my failed marriage yet my partners ex pays nothing because the CSA will not pursue a legal attachment of earnings on him as he refuses to pay.

48 hours of work a week for what? and everywhere I turn a food bank is the answer.

The system is a joke.
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A system based on punishment, punish them back to work..
 
Orcish-Horde said:
A system based on punishment, punish them back to work..
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I feel it is getting towards criminalising.

It is perfectly ok for the rich to be involved in tax avoidance schemes who often get tax refunds. Yet if you get tax credits you are branded as a scrounger.

The way I see it is I have taken on a lady with children who would have received a massive state subsidy. I always knew as a collective unit we would be worse off financially. That wasn't even a consideration, she gave up a local authority place, benefits etc etc.

Ok we will not be financially independent unless I can get back on track earning what I once did. Even if I don't I am saving probably 2 grand a month for the tax payer despite getting a little support. What is better me collecting a bit in tax credits or supporting an entire family for thousands purely in benefits.

Look at it that way it is a no brainier. I will not give in I want to work and I will work, just ffs give me a chance.
 
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memyselfandi said:
I don't have an issue with them freezing benefits. Why should people who are not working get a rise every year when those who work do not in the current economic climate.

Don't like it, get a job ... although half of them probably are on the fiddle anyway in some way ...
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Most of the people affected HAVE A JOB.

Too many people believe the ridiculous anti-poor propaganda and have no idea what reality is (and don't care).

Hardly any of the welfare budget goes to people who are unemployed and not pensioners and hardly any of the unemployed non-pensioners are on the fiddle. It's just lies used in the service of making the working poor poorer. It would be less offensive if they walked around screaming "BLOODY PEASANTS!" through a PA system because that would be more honest.

I wish reality was anything like the propaganda, because then I could quit my job and live a far better life on benefits. But reality is nothing like that.
 
The government takes from everyone and the poor always suffer. The End.

It is complete BS to think pensioners are well off as a group, as is, that people on benefits are all scroungers. The reality is that there are very poor pensioners that have trouble keeping warm in winter and it is almost certain that some will die from the cold this winter. Most of the money in welfare is spent on in work benefits yet all people can moan and demonise certain sections of the community be it the unemployed, pensioners or the working poor.

The pot of money is only so big, so it's always been the case of shifting the money about here and there. The ones it affects will moan as it makes them poorer, the ones that benefit thinks its great, come the election it's all change and the ones benefitted will moan the are worse off and vice versa. Rinse and repeat. All the while, everyone wants better services but no one wants to pay for it.

Calls for the rich should pay more wins many nodding heads yet when people talk of getting over £325k for free, they think being taxed on it is abhorrent. You couldn't make this **** up.
 
Lartyconshayo said:
Have you read the Green manifesto. Proper chance for change there
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Yes and they are about the only alternative to vote for. Unfortunately the press don't cover them, which is a stich up as they actually have an MP when UKIP get loads of coverage and don't even have a single MP
 
AndyT said:
The thread title demonstrates absolutely no bias whatsoever from the OP...
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Actually, it demonstrates an opinion, rather than a bias.

The floor is, however, clear for you to offer an "unbiased" revision. I look forward to your contribution to the discussion.
 
=XDC=FluphyBunny said:
Curious but where do you live that leads you to the figure of £325k as a 'moderate' priced house for 'working class' families?

I very much doubt that is based on any official figure.
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Dicehunter said:
Most of my friends in england are what the english would call working class and live in homes priced around £80K - £120K, If £325K is moderate then this person must live in the "Poorer" end of Mayfair :p
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Well I am in South East. Upminster specifically.

120k wouldnt buy you anything even close to here. My old house in Rainham (not so nice area), 3 bed, mid terrace, tiny garden i think is currently valued at 280k.

House I live in now.. 4 bedroom, detached, 100ft+ garden... considerably more.
 
Orcish-Horde said:
Because we are investing in her and her child and again we invest in the old as we will one day be old as well.
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The thing is, we're not really investing in them, we're throwing money at the problem and hoping it goes away.

It's exactly the same BS as goes on with all the African charities, and that has been going on for the last 30+ years, where nothing has changed. There are still people living in the middle of the desert with not enough food, water and more kids than they can support.

Some problems can't be solved simply by throwing money at them, these people need actual support; education - training, and life coaching. Show them how to be more productive and give them the incentives to do so, rather than just paying their bills and expecting them to somehow figure out how to get out of the trap on their own.
 
I think the Tories ought to have said all this before the Scottish independence referendum tbh. Wonder why they didn't :rolleyes:
 
scorza said:
I think the Tories ought to have said all this before the Scottish independence referendum tbh. Wonder why they didn't :rolleyes:
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Wouldn't of mattered either way. If they announced before and Scotland went it's own way they wouldn't have any money to pay benefits anyways!
 
Rofflay said:
I wonder how much he is planning to give BT for GFAST. That is a form of Welfare too when they have enough to spend a BILLION after BDUK gave them £500 million. But this is good welfare amirite? Yes subsidy good but subsidy for poor is bad. You have to laugh though not only are all of these people incredibly rich and have life good.
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There is a good economic case for having a strong, modern telecommunications network in our country. The government, in this case, have done the right thing by allowing a specialist to get on and do it, and provided some funding. Don't really see a problem with that myself.
 
 
Haggisman said:
Some problems can't be solved simply by throwing money at them, these people need actual support; education - training, and life coaching. Show them how to be more productive and give them the incentives to do so, rather than just paying their bills and expecting them to somehow figure out how to get out of the trap on their own.
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Well said,

I think everyone wants to be productive deep down, I think it's a deep human desire to contribute and to produce.

Why does it feel so good to complete projects, help others, achieve things? it's what we are meant to do.

People would do it, but the fact is so many of them have no idea whatsoever how to get out of the pit they are stuck in.
 
Stretch said:
While I do sympathise a little with the "they've worked hard" argument, it is seriously flawed imo.

They reality is, todays generation of pensioners were conned by the governments they elected. They took their hard earned money, and spent it on bribing people to get themselves elected. They were the recipients of these bribes.
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Govt. have stopped trying to bribe the electorate before an election? Like the various bribes coming out of the Tory conference. Everybody was the recipient of bribes by political parties ... it is the way they operate.

Now that nations pot is empty, it seems very unfair to lumber this mistake on the next generation of hard working people.
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What a lot of twaddle. Any generation could claim the same. Lumbered with the debts of WW1, the first depression, WW2(we declared war on Germany ... not the other way round).

It's reasonable that pensioners should make a sacrifice of some sort, but their attitude can only be described a . All pensioner benefits should now be means tested at the very least.
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Your quote above shows that it is you who are

selfish and actually slightly childish
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The reason that Govts try to avoid means testing is that it is expensive ... you need more civil servants etc, which goes against the aim of reducing their number which has been this Govts aim since it started.


Lots of people go through life working hard and have absolutely nothing to show for it.

Working hard doesn't automatically entitle you to anything.
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Except todays pensioners may have worked for 50 years under a contract with Govt that they would get a pension for paying their NI stamp. They are not getting it for free, they have earned it. You don't work you get a vastly reduced pension or not at all.

You need to make wise decisions if you want to live comfortably is later years, and frankly, the UK governments attitude to pensions for the last generation has been one of denialism.
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The Govt brought in the auto-enrolment which you have to opt out every three years because it recognised with their policies that people were not paying into pensions because they did not have the spare cash.
 
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