ISIS and Islamic militants - discussion

Splint said:
With that in mind, I have to wonder why there is so much interest as to what happens in this country / region. It's not as if anyone is lining up to go free Tibet from China, or irradicate Boko Haram..the child abducting killers..although the #BringBackOurGirls campaign was moving.

Get out and stay out would be my stance, but it's too late for that, so I guess it's the war method again, never know it might work this time!
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Goes back much more than that:

"25 December 1923 - Sheikh Mahmud proclaims himself King of Kurdistan; subsequently, the RAF bombs his house in Sulaymaniyah."

Doesn't seem to be that well known but the RAF carried out fairly sustained bombing runs in the 1920s even effectively carpet bombing some Iraq cities.

We do seem to be oddly fascinated with blowing the place up.
 
ubersonic said:
This is correct, NATO concluded after 9/11 that a terrorist attack is still an attack and that the rules still apply (by the time this ruling had been decided upon the US had already taken out the Taliban so NATO had no work to do, but the ruling was meant more as a what to do if this happens in the future ruling).
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Is that what's written in Bush's diary?
 
Rroff said:
Goes back much more than that:

"25 December 1923 - Sheikh Mahmud proclaims himself King of Kurdistan; subsequently, the RAF bombs his house in Sulaymaniyah."

Doesn't seem to be that well known but the RAF carried out fairly sustained bombing runs in the 1920s even effectively carpet bombing some Iraq cities.

We do seem to be oddly fascinated with blowing the place up.
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lets not just cherry pick 1 line from the events in that time shall we:


"Iraq Command was responsible for the following military actions:

1920 to 1922 - The Great Iraqi Revolution of 1920 started in Baghdad in the summer of 1920 and dragged on until 1922.

February to May 1923 - Following the anti-British activities of Sheikh Mahmud, delayed-action bombs are dropped outside Sulaymaniyah in an effort to get the Sheikh to adopt more pro-British policies. British land forces occupy Sulaymaniyah on 17 May and Sheikh Mahmud flees to Persia.

March to April 1923 - In response to the uncovering of Turkish plans for an attack on Kurdistan, supported by local tribes associated with Sheikh Mahmud, Imperial troops and levies occupy Rowanduz and drive Turkish troops into nearby Persia.

April 1923 - The RAF flies 280 Sikh troops from Kingarban to Kirkuk in the first British air trooping operation.

25 December 1923 - Sheikh Mahmud proclaims himself King of Kurdistan; subsequently, the RAF bombs his house in Sulaymaniyah.
December 1923 to January 1924 - The RAF bombs Akhwan raiders from Najd in an attempt to stop their attacks on the tribes living in southern Iraq.

4 May 1924 - Following a dispute between Assyrian levies and the Muslims living in Kirkuk, the levies run amok. Air Vice-Marshal J F A Higgins has two platoons of the 1st Battalion the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers airlifted from Hinaidi to Kirkuk to restore order.

5 May 1924 - The fusiliers are reinforced by air with two additional infantry platoons. No. 30 Squadron RAF carries out thorough air reconnaissance of the Kirkuk district."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Iraq_Command
 
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Harlequin said:
lets not just cherry pick 1 line from the events in that time shall we:


"Iraq Command was responsible for the following military actions:

1920 to 1922 - The Great Iraqi Revolution of 1920 started in Baghdad in the summer of 1920 and dragged on until 1922.

February to May 1923 - Following the anti-British activities of Sheikh Mahmud, delayed-action bombs are dropped outside Sulaymaniyah in an effort to get the Sheikh to adopt more pro-British policies. British land forces occupy Sulaymaniyah on 17 May and Sheikh Mahmud flees to Persia.

March to April 1923 - In response to the uncovering of Turkish plans for an attack on Kurdistan, supported by local tribes associated with Sheikh Mahmud, Imperial troops and levies occupy Rowanduz and drive Turkish troops into nearby Persia.

April 1923 - The RAF flies 280 Sikh troops from Kingarban to Kirkuk in the first British air trooping operation.

25 December 1923 - Sheikh Mahmud proclaims himself King of Kurdistan; subsequently, the RAF bombs his house in Sulaymaniyah.
December 1923 to January 1924 - The RAF bombs Akhwan raiders from Najd in an attempt to stop their attacks on the tribes living in southern Iraq.

4 May 1924 - Following a dispute between Assyrian levies and the Muslims living in Kirkuk, the levies run amok. Air Vice-Marshal J F A Higgins has two platoons of the 1st Battalion the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers airlifted from Hinaidi to Kirkuk to restore order.

5 May 1924 - The fusiliers are reinforced by air with two additional infantry platoons. No. 30 Squadron RAF carries out thorough air reconnaissance of the Kirkuk district."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Iraq_Command
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Don't get in his way of self loathing righteousness. "Fight the powa!"
 
I may be wrong, but I am sure that I read somewhere that ISIS were originally funded by Turkey, Oman and a few other Arab Nations during the start of the Syrian Uprising? I think this is why IS will not attack Turkey (don't bite the hand that feeds you). Equally, due to Muslim majority in Turkey and its history of the Ottoman Empire, I believe that Turkey will not attack IS unless they are fired upon first. Then they will retaliate with an iron fist!

Troops on the ground? NATO are trying to avoid this as this is what IS want. With troops on the ground, it would give an excuse to call it a Holy War and another Western Invasion. With a multiple national Allied Force, it would be more sensible to allow the Arab Nations to send in ground troops, as this would help to reduce any inflammation of a religous war. I also believe that by holding out against a ground strike, US & UK are hoping to gain enough support from the UN against IS (and possibly Syria?) so that any ground intervention would be as part of a global UN Force.

In short, ISIS want to fight the West in a Holy War on the ground and US&UK are not willing to play that game again.
 
OldCoals said:
Just looked at the thread title.

ISIS seem to be doing pretty well so far.
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Indeed - did I read this morning the US saying something along the lines of "losing Kobani isn't that important strategically". All I have seen is some clapped out GR4s bomb a few trucks, the US bomb some more stuff and Canada voting to join in the fight :p. OK - air power alone wasn't going to do it but it's hard to see how they've had their backsides handed to them so far.
 
shaggyd said:
I may be wrong, but I am sure that I read somewhere that ISIS were originally funded by Turkey, Oman and a few other Arab Nations during the start of the Syrian Uprising? I think this is why IS will not attack Turkey (don't bite the hand that feeds you).
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This is a very good point, I mean after the USA had funded/armed al-Qaeda in their efforts to kick the USSR out of Afghanistan, it's not like al-Qaeda ever turned on the USA or anything...
 
Rroff said:
....

Doesn't seem to be that well known but the RAF carried out fairly sustained bombing runs in the 1920s even effectively carpet bombing some Iraq cities.

....
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Nonsense...the small two seat biplane aircraft used in Iraq at the time were not capable of "carpet bombing" anything.
 
Stolly said:
Nonsense...the small two seat biplane aircraft used in Iraq at the time were not capable of "carpet bombing" anything.
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Actually carpet bombing was about the only thing you could do with those planes as they couldn't launch missiles or precision guided bombs.
 
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ubersonic said:
Actually carpet bombing was about the only thing you could do with Sopwith Camel's as they couldn't launch rockets or precision guided bombs.
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dropping carpets huh - since the camel carried 2x Vickers mg`s and very occasionally 1x25lb cooper bomb.

the vimy wasn't in Iraq (was in eqypt) , and neither was the DH10 , so running out of options for a `heavy` bomber of the era
 
Ha. "Carpet Bombing" in a Sopwith Camel? Those planes could barely carry their own weight. The best "bombing" they did was a few hand released grenades carried in the co-pilots pockets.
 
RedDanDoc said:
Care to define "Carpet Bombing" ?
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Yeah, it basically means dropping a load of bombs to make sure you cover your target (because you don't have the precision to simply take out your target with a surgical strike), it's mostly used against cities, like it was against Iraq in the examples given.

I think the reason Stolly didn't realise groups of old bombers could do it is because it's a literately new phrase, but a phrase for something that existed before the was a phrase for it.


Dj_Jestar said:
Ha. "Carpet Bombing" in a Sopwith Camel?
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Yeah I edited the post, I thought the planes being discussed were camels, not that up on the names of older bombers.
 
maybe be a DH9A - but that's a light bomber with a 300kg load not a heavy bomber


edit:

number 55 squadron was equipped with 8 DH9A`s in 1920 on redeployment to iraq
 
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ubersonic said:
This is a very good point, I mean after the USA had funded/armed al-Qaeda in their efforts to kick the USSR out of Afghanistan, it's not like al-Qaeda ever turned on the USA or anything...
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I thought this was pretty much considered to be a myth by anyone who has actually looked into the issue.
 
ubersonic said:
Yeah, it basically means dropping a load of bombs to make sure you cover your target (because you don't have the precision to simply take out your target with a surgical strike), it's mostly used against cities, like it was against Iraq in the examples given.

I think the reason Stolly didn't realise groups of old bombers could do it is because it's a literately new phrase, but a phrase for something that existed before the was a phrase for it.




Yeah I edited the post, I thought the planes being discussed were camels, not that up on the names of older bombers.
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Oh I thought that it was defined by tonnage. Wasnt the Blenheim a UK WW1 Bomber ?
 
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