The way he blames the west and non-muslims for everything isn't surprising. We won't see any improvement in the level of extremist activity in the UK until Muslims take some responsibility.
ISIS and Islamic militants - discussion
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The way he blames the west and non-muslims for everything isn't surprising. We won't see any improvement in the level of extremist activity in the UK until Muslims take some responsibility.
I don't disagree with any of that, however, and this is a big however. When a Muslim goes to a mosque for advice, does that Muslim take that advice at face value? That's the impression i got and still getting whenever a ruling comes back from a fatwa request.
When anyone gives me advice on anything i always think about it and get 2-3 points of view and think about what i would do in my heart. And if i don't agree with it i reject it
Soldato
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I don't think anyone is saying that but it would be hard to argue that there's no responsibility to be had. What do you think ?
Influence the Islamic faith has over this country?
Funny how it's ex Muslims who seem to display the most hate towards Islam.
Something there I need to figure out..
In the mean time if you ever revert I think isis would like your style of thinking.
Am I to leave my day job and go isis hunting? Are you going to pay my wages.
Seriously though I talk about this problem with other Muslims, a lot like to tar them as out of the faith. This approach does not help though, as the reasons most of them do it is religious based.
Best thing to do? More surveillance and harsher laws especially on those who propagate this disgusting ideology.
The police are told about most of these people, no one wants there kids to grow up as suicide bombers. So we know who they are, but nothing is done about them.
Someone told me a story about his local imam sending someone's kid to Syria, police were alerted straight away yet that man is still there preaching.
What more can be done when the police don't take action?
BREAKING NEWS: On duty Canadian soldier shot outside parliament in Ottawa.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29724907
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29724907
Soldato
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Where the hell did that come from
While I get what your saving to a point its the likes of radical preachers and imam's in name of the Islamic religion that are radicalising a lot of people. What is it in the koran that these people are twisting to radicalise others or why are so many take it so literary.
There was a time 100's of years ago when the Islamic world was way ahead of the western world in the balance of science/art/society with religion (I've seen some beautiful scientific instruments which had scripture engrained on to them) so what happened there
Granted people take the bible literary as but not to same extent/police officer and the fact there's a "new" testament shows that religious texts can evolve with the times.
I agree but sadly monitoring someone is very resources intensive and the police have admitted they dont have the resources to monitor everyone all the time. Even before the cuts this would be a hard thing to do.
As s side is there a limit to how much/detailed/long surveillance can be carried on a person until it falls fouls of something like human rights laws?
The police are told about most of these people, no one wants there kids to grow up as suicide bombers. So we know who they are, but nothing is done about them.
That is shocking it should have at least been followed up by a police officer at the very least but it might be the case that he's already on the radar and there gathering evidence for a case.
Glad the guy is ok. Wonder who did it. I know the USA\Canada have camps already setup just in case.
Influence the Islamic faith has over this country?
Disproportionately so, despite being a small minority nearly all fast food outlets serve Halal meat weather we want it or not. (I personally don't want to eat it because it's of much cheaper and lower quality then regular meat). There seems to be as many mosques as there churches but Muslims only make up 10% of the population. (This includes so called "Education centers" which are mosque in disguse). The number of faith schools (And do i really need to get into what going on in Birmingham?)
There's a very good reason for that, we've experience the culture first hand, and if we're running away as fast as we can that should be a red flag to the rest.
I'm guessing you and KIA are privvy to intelligence which the rest of us aren't, i've yet to see an ounce of evidence that would link the average moderate muslim in the uk to the crimes of ISIS.
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Living in a country with an ineffective police force is just something we're going to have to live with, they aren't going to get competent any time soon. My question is; why does it have to be the police (or other authority) that takes action? Why can't people within those communities take actions that are legal to get rid of these people?
As I've said previously I'm not going to say what action should be taken because I'm not from those communities, but I can't help thinking about the people of Clapham who came together after the London riots of 2011 and worked as a community to clean up etc. Obviously a totally different scenario but does prove that communities can come together for the benefit of their areas.
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So I who never lived inside these community's or share any heritage, history or any other social (bar living in the same country) or religious commonality have the same level of responsibility to weed out the radicals as members of the community the radicalised come from ?
I think not.
And when they do get it right, they accuse the police of persecution like i saw one woman on Daily Politics about the Birmingham Schools.
So not only does the Muslim community not help very much, they actively try to get in the way of the police doing their jobs
I wonder if robgmun feels guilty at all, i wonder if he did enough at the time he was muslim, is he doing enough now.
Do you think he might be protecting his old buddies ?
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From how he talks I don't think so but hey I don't know him or have ever been part of a and/or his Islamic community of any form so I have a default lack of information there.
Would you care to answer the question I posed rather than ask 2 more questions?
oh i guess i missed it.....the answer is yes.
Do you think we should trust robgmun ?
Around the time of the 2004 bombing I felt disgusted and let everyone around know i felt disgusted, i noted the silence amongst my so called friends in the community and frankly i was shocked, they we more concerned about how it was going to effect them in daily life. I was shocked
By 2007 i was done, that's the most i could do at the time (messy divorce)
Are you having a giggle mate? If i had an even an inkling that any of them were joining or about to join an extreme party i would have shopped them to the police in a heart beat
So how many terrorists have you handed in ?
I didn't know any but if i had an even an inkling that any of them were joining or about to join an extreme party i would have shopped them to the police in a heart beat. The attitude was more of a general "nothing to do with me jack, the pigs are going to my life harder now, boo!" and "great, more checks at the airport"
No consideration for the victims of 7/7