** Star Wars Episode VII - SPOILERS WITHIN **

[dannyjo22]

Ben who? I was just split up from my gf kinda when went to see it and was ovee an hour late when we arrived at cinema so i missed some bits.

If luke knew kylo was bad and able to use the force he wouldn't have gone surely so he must have left before that stage in his life?

You need to go back and see it again

Luke was training Ben. Han and Leia's son. He turned bad, killed the other apprentices and became Kylo Ren. Luke did what Luke does, whined and ran away, leaving a map just in case all the other chicken ****s in the universe have died.

Hopefully we see Luke win at least one fight as a jedi before he dies.

 

[Shamikebab]

Wait 3/4 scenes of Finn hitting on Rey? Like what?

 

[robgmun]

I bet Kiera Knightley was her mum. "I'm Rye!"

Well, she was in TPM as fake Queen Amidala

 

[MaX_PoWah]

Mixed thoughts

1. Are we supposed to assume Finn is force sensitive as well ? this was a bit confusing. He is even on the posters with a lightsaber. Wasn't it cannon for a while that only a Jedi could bind the blade of a lightsabre hence why there was so much uproar about Han using it in Empire strikes back and various theories about General Grevious. Why bring all that up again?

2. I was worried i wouldn't be able to take Adam Driver seriously after watching that HBO series girls with him in. I wasn't wrong. Hans Death scene is terrible. Making someone a bit undecided / Mardy and unsure seems very Disney and a long way from the angst and anger that created Vader. I bet we wont see anything anywhere as brutal as Anakin getting chopped up and burnt alive in this trilogy.

3. As previously echoed i don't know how they are planning on overshadowing Luke with the new characters. They are going to have to kill him off pretty quickly i would imagine.

4. Loved the random Humor.

5. I am hoping they explain how Ray progressed in her force powers so quickly but i am concerned they wont.

6. I think Ray been some offspring of Luke is a bit too predictable and i like someones theory earlier that she was a child of one of Lukes Jedi Crew but they are going to have to add a lot of backstory to make this theory intresting/

7. Did anyone else think there was just something wrong with the scene with the rebellion people round the console looking at the plans. The alien headed people just seemed out of proportion. I guess you cant win though as the full CGI people felt a little out of place as well.

8. I didnt really have any issue with Ford's acting as some are saying.

9. Why randomly introduce the concept that an inanimate object (i.e the lightsabre) can suddenly create all this knowledge of the force. Granted that lightsabre has seen some action but this is not something we have seen before is it ?

Going to see it again tonight so maybe i will feel different.

 

[Steampunk]

I kind of liked the thought that Rey had no training and she was a natural at using and adapting the force to her will.

If you think about it the first force users who were the original teachers, must have learnt to use it somehow with no training? Maybe they were like Rey and were born with the natural ability to will it to use?

Well there is the concept of "force users". The Jedi and the Sith are a couple of religious groups of force users, but there are others (such as grey Jedi) that have different philosophies and are not associated with the Jedi/Sith.

It's quite possible to be a force user without following the teachings of the Jedi or Sith.

 

[dannyjo22]

Mixed thoughts

1. Are we supposed to assume Finn is force sensitive as well ? this was a bit confusing. He is even on the posters with a lightsaber. Wasn't it cannon for a while that only a Jedi could bind the blade of a lightsabre hence why there was so much uproar about Han using it in Empire strikes back and various theories about General Grevious. Why bring all that up again?

If a lightsabre has an on off switch anyone can turn it on. A few used the force to turn them on. Anakins old one had a on/off switch. Just the same as Luke turning it on in New Hope.

 

[Chrisimo]

However my main disappointment came from the bad guy, Kylo Ren. He just wasn't anywhere near bad enough. Darth Vader, in the first film, doesn't have that much screen time, but he's a total mother ******* badass every time you see him. They did such a good job of building tension around him, whereas this guy...had his mask off inside an hour?? Now of course they'll suit him up a la Darth Vadar and I'm sure he'll be more cruel, but he's still tainted.

I understand that he is not badass - but not bad enough? He does more bad stuff in this movie than Vader did in ANH.
I think it's great that we can watch the development of all the characters, not just the protagonist.
And I think that a suit doesn't make one a badass. Vader needed the suit, that's why he wore it. Kylo wears the helmet to appear more of a badass but it makes him actually weak. I hope that he will not wear any mask again after he finished his training/comes into his own.

 

[D3K]

I understand that he is not badass - but not bad enough? He does more bad stuff in this movie than Vader did in ANH.
I think it's great that we can watch the development of all the characters, not just the protagonist.
And I think that a suit doesn't make one a badass. Vader needed the suit, that's why he wore it. Kylo wears the helmet to appear more of a badass but it makes him actually weak. I hope that he will not wear any mask again after he finished his training/comes into his own.

I suspect he's gonna wear some kind of half-mask after rey burnt his face.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Taking a stab in the dark here.

Rey's powers and the untrained skills could be explained in the Phantom Menace, when Qui-Gon Jinn brought Anakin to the council and asked permission for him to be trained believing he is the one in the prophecy that will bring balance to the force.

Perhaps he was wrong as Anakin turned out to be Vader and Luke has failed too and pretty much given up and went on exile himself.

So we are left with Rey, the way she can use her powers that early, Ren saying she is strong with the Force, she can hear Yoda and Obi-Wan's voices in the dream R2/hand sequence and in the entire movie she never needed rescuing once. The Force is strong with her, stronger than anyone else we have seen in the movies so far so perhaps she is the one in the prophecy.

We will find out in Ep8 !

 

[Skeeter]

Anakin did defeat the Sith and bring balance to the Force, though. He just took a while to get round to it.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Anakin did defeat the Sith and bring balance to the Force, though. He just took a while to get round to it.

I would have thought the one who bring balance would not turn to the dark side.

 

[Freefaller]

Maybe to bring balance he needed to go both ways?

 

[Skeeter]

I would have thought the one who bring balance would not turn to the dark side.

The Prophesy never said how the Chosen One would defeat the Sith, just that they would.

 

[The Running Man]

You need to go back and see it again

Luke was training Ben. Han and Leia's son. He turned bad, killed the other apprentices and became Kylo Ren. Luke did what Luke does, whined and ran away, leaving a map just in case all the other chicken ****s in the universe have died.

Hopefully we see Luke win at least one fight as a jedi before he dies.

Thanks i didn't realise ben was renamed. Why would he run away *after* the dark side awakens? That makes no sense.

also they find the smaller map fragment and say it matches no know star configuration. So umm did someone drop luke off and map it before setting off home? How could luke have created the map of uncharted territory before setting off?

And what was lukes last message? Don't call me unless it's super important? Well if ben had become kylo under lukes watch wasn't the situation already urgent ? It literally makes no sense..

 

[Raymond Lin]

Thanks i didn't realise ben was renamed. Why would he run away *after* the dark side awakens? That makes no sense.

also they find the smalker map fragment and say it matches no know star configuration. So umm did someone drop luke off and map it before setting off home? How could luke hace created the map of uncharted territory before setting off?

And what was lukes last message? Don't call me unless it's super important? Well if ben had become kylo under lukes watch wasn't the situation already urgent ? It literally makes no sense..

Ben/Kylo ran away after he turn dark? Because he knows he doesn't belong there anymore after destroying everything luke had tried to do? Or perhaps at that point Snoke had found him and went and got him too. He became Kylo after he went to train with Snoke.

As for the map, I believe that isn't a map to find Luke, it was a map to the lost Jedi temple. They thought that is one place that Luke would be and had to find the map to that.

 

[Skeeter]

Thanks i didn't realise ben was renamed. Why would he run away *after* the dark side awakens? That makes no sense.

also they find the smaller map fragment and say it matches no know star configuration. So umm did someone drop luke off and map it before setting off home? How could luke have created the map of uncharted territory before setting off?

And what was lukes last message? Don't call me unless it's super important? Well if ben had become kylo under lukes watch wasn't the situation already urgent ? It literally makes no sense..

I think the premise is that Luke has turned his back on the Force and the Republic and just given up.

He's going to have spent years trying to build up the Jedi only to see them all wiped out before his eyes by someone he trained. I would assume a combination of feeling "whats the point" along with blaming himself for Kylo Ren may have lead him to just give up and leave.

After all, Luke did create Kylo Ren... He probably feels he is doing more harm than good by sticking around.

Its hardly a new concept either. The Original Trilogy is based on the last few remaining Jedi running away and hiding for 20 years while Darth Vader took over the Galaxy.

 

[Chrisimo]

Taking a stab in the dark here.

Rey's powers and the untrained skills could be explained in the Phantom Menace, when Qui-Gon Jinn brought Anakin to the council and asked permission for him to be trained believing he is the one in the prophecy that will bring balance to the force.

Perhaps he was wrong as Anakin turned out to be Vader and Luke has failed too and pretty much given up and went on exile himself.

The prophecy is supposedly explained in Detail in the Clone Wars - Anakin is the chosen one. Of course she could be another one...

So we are left with Rey, the way she can use her powers that early, Ren saying she is strong with the Force, she can hear Yoda and Obi-Wan's voices in the dream R2/hand sequence and in the entire movie she never needed rescuing once. The Force is strong with her, stronger than anyone else we have seen in the movies so far so perhaps she is the one in the prophecy.

We will find out in Ep8 !

We don't really know how strong she is in the Force. She might have had previous training. I think that Kylo Ren and her may have about the same potential, but while he has more experience with the Force, she has an advantage in her mindset. She is more of a warrior (i.e. control of emotions) and thus maybe on par or ahead of him in terms of how much of her potential she has "unlocked"

 

[Freefaller]

Edit: Post cocked up apologies.

I thought Kylo Ren being a petulant child was exactly what was required. He's tormented between the light side and good, he reminds me of Anakin from the poor prequels; wanting to be powerful and mastering the force, but not having the discipline to be able to master it. He's almost showing off with his use of the force to intimidate, but actually is very insecure, thus his control over the force is poor. I also think he hasn't encountered another force sensitive/enabled person - which further throws him off his stride. I think he makes himself therefore a perfect candidate for corruption which we shall see.

I also wonder whether or not Snoke is Darth Plagueis since the EU is going to be mainly ignored (from what I hear). Although Darth Sidius supposedly killed him in his sleep, would Darth Plagueis actually let that happen? Either way it'll be interesting to see how they take that story further. I don't have an opinion on either argument about this.

I think the film could have benefited from being a little longer, to give a better sense of time elapsing for Rey to develop her affinity with the force, and the time taken for the First Order to discover them at Maz Kanata's place, it felt a little rushed in places. Also a lot of people didn't realise or take note that Maz is a pirate/smuggler that has been alive for over 1000 years, so her getting her hands on Luke's lightsaber is not inconceivable, but also it could have been done on purpose (planted), owing to Luke having a vision about Rey's coming... who knows!

I guess Rey always "knew" - a bit like how they portrayed it in Episode 1 with young Anakin being a pod racer and having "Jedi like reflexes". She was pretty skilled with her staff too, and a bit of a scraper, Kylo was also badly injured so I guess that's probably why / how she bettered him. However I felt that they could have made that clearer.

With regards to Luke, there is clearly more to the story than we've been told given Luke’s lack of dialogue so I'm looking forward to seeing that story line develop.

Yes the typical weakness of a big planet destroying weapon was a bit 'been there done that', however, I thought it was great, "How do we blow it up? There's always a way to do that."

It was also interesting to see Solo accepting that the force is real, Jedi and Sith - which probably reinforces Rey's affinity.

I'm still curious to hear about Finn's history, where his family is from etc... is he force sensitive too?

 

[dannyjo22]

The Prophesy never said how the Chosen One would defeat the Sith, just that they would.

Yet again the prophesy isn't about the sith or killing them. Even the Jedi council didn't understand what bringing balance to the force meant. They all got it wrong.

Anakin was the chosen one, he was shown what he was supposed to do, he was shown what he might become if he didn't do the role the chosen one was supposed to do. He turned his back on being the chosen one to try to change what he would become. His mind was then wiped of the meeting and he became Vader. Anakin did not bring balance to the force.

 

[dannyjo22]

The Force is strong with her, stronger than anyone else we have seen in the movies so far so perhaps she is the one in the prophecy.

We will find out in Ep8 !

Well she not even remotely as strong as Anakin or all the old council. That was a problem with the prequels being done after the originals. The limits at the time couldn't show how strong vader was and what he endured. So you are left with Vader being pretty crap, which they have tried to address in recent canon material. Anakin was incredibly powerful, they show this in the clone wars series, which to me did more harm than good, because he would have no problem dispatching luke even with artificial limbs. The fight choreography at the time makes him look like he got beat by a rookie with wild overhand swing

Kenobi in TPM looks like he would easily dispatch the pair of them inside 5 seconds.