Soldato
Orban is corrupted idiot, sooner he's gone the better for eveyrone.
He built football stadium in his village and along the way got all his mates to work on it and earn **** loads of money
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Arena
Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)
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Orban is corrupted idiot, sooner he's gone the better for eveyrone.
He built football stadium in his village and along the way got all his mates to work on it and earn **** loads of money
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Arena
Man of Honour
And the signs from the EU (and remember EU member states can't negotiate on their own, it needs to be via the EU) is that they will not sign a free trade agreement without freedom of movement.
Soldato
Soldato
[TW]Fox;29213451 said:
Surely its not just about minimum wage jobs but also those jobs that pay above the minimum wage that then become minimum wage jobs because an oversupply of cheap labor?
Soldato
"Greece recalls ambassador from Austria amid sharp EU divisions over migrant crisis"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35658776
And off we go.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35658776
And off we go.
Soldato
This issue is forever misinterpreted. Not only for the last century there is always someone perpetually blamed for "stealing them jobs for pennies", whether it's Irish, various "illegals", Polish or Bulgarians, but also because there is a notion of some sort of cumulative evil exploiting employer figure who accumulates vast amount of cushy wealth between paying "them migrants sleeping ten a bed in shipping containers" pennies, and charging the customer a fortune. In real life free economy, outside of Socialist Worker articles and UKIP mythology, this doesn't happen. Unskilled and low skilled labour wages undertake constant adjustment on workforce supply basis - the days when bricky or road maintainer would break top tier in annual wage are over, because such wage discrepancy doesn't exist anywhere else in Europe. And it's not unfair adjustment, it benefits the economy.
In a scenario where you artificially cut off supply of labour to protect local market, the impact is not on the fatcat employer, but on consumer directly. If Polish builder is gone and British builder will not work for less than £150 a day, his benefit of higher wage is paid at the expense of hundreds of customers a year. So the question is - how much more are YOU willing to pay for your garden wall or your carpeting, how much are YOU willing to pay for Amazon delivery or pizza to your door, how much service charge are YOU willing to pay in restaurant to dish washers and bus boys for all unskilled and low skilled functions to be performed by someone born and bred on England's pleasant pastures and paid "decent wage"?
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![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
This is just such a nonsense paragraph.
Why do you think not being in the EU 'protects' us against this? Norway isn't in the EU - is it free of '***********'?
They didn't arrive in the EU legally anyway so what makes you think the fact we changed political status would 'protect' us? These people are arriving by slashing fences, travelling across seas, etc..
I can't see the likes of Renault, Citroen, Fiat, BMW, Mercedes, and and Siemens sitting by and letting that happen.
Man of Honour
I'm not sure they have a choice in the matter. Whilst they can lobby, and I'm sure they would, hard; EU member states would ultimately need to agree, which wouldn't be fast.
It may be more pragmatic and indeed cheaper for those companies to move production elsewhere. That in itself is a big decision which has costs and lead times, but I'm sure they'd at least run the numbers and work out what is cheaper, in both the short and medium terms.
Caporegime
[TW]Fox;29213851 said:
Norway joined Schengen though, against the will of the Norwegian people I might add. Once an EU member states gives a migrant the right to stay in their country, then we can't legally prevent them coming to the UK
But you are completely ignoring the fact that business wants these people.
Soldato
Production? The issue is trade tariffs not production.
Aside from Siemens I don't think those companies have significant manufacturing facilities in the UK and Siemens is v.high skill jobs.
Caporegime
I am dubious as to the validity of your sources. Here is Orban saying something similar but sharply distinct:
On the subject of social benefits for migrant workers (an expression that makes Orbán wince when applied to Hungarians working in the UK), he announced that the Visegrád 4 countries had achieved their objective of ensuring EU citizens continue to have the right to work anywhere in the bloc without obstruction. He offered as proof of success the fact that Hungarians working in other EU countries would have access to social services “without discrimination.” Thanks to the results achieved at the summit, Hungarians working abroad would “continue to receive what they paid for to date”, in other words, there would be no roll-back in benefits for Hungarians already working in the UK.
Orbán said that in the case of families with children working in Great Britain, it was agreed that the level of social support they receive would be adjusted to reflect disparities in the cost of living in the case of those foreign workers whose children are living in another country. He said families living in the UK with their children would continue to receive the same benefits as British families with children.
Orbán said that in the case of families with children working in Great Britain, it was agreed that the level of social support they receive would be adjusted to reflect disparities in the cost of living in the case of those foreign workers whose children are living in another country. He said families living in the UK with their children would continue to receive the same benefits as British families with children.
Man of Honour
Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious here, but if they're produced in the UK to be sold in the EU, then having an import/export duty would be a cost for these companies to deal with right?
Soldato
You're missing the fact that the access to the British market is the issue raised. so yes.
If they are not manufactured here then we would impose trade tariffs on the likes of BMW and Mercedes .
Caporegime
I'm not ignoring it, I'm just proposing that we don't pander to it.
Exactly, cars produced in the UK, exported into the EU may be subject to tariffs if we leave.
But there we go again, if, may etc.
Caporegime
Having the government machinery behind them gives us a considerable advantage over the Leave campaign. Yes, at the end of the day, it is one man, one vote but the result of that result will be swung by the campaign that proceeds it.
Cameron's decision is making the campaign less fair.
I know you are an exponent of supply an demand, if less immigrants mean increased wages, what will that do to the price of goods?
Soldato
do the companies you listed actually manufacture in the UK?
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