Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)

[estebanrey]

Got Google? It's not as though I referred to a vague body of law which comes from a disparate range of sources... I referred to a single directive (or pointed out the opt out in the one you referred to doesn't mean what you think it does).

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1373

Here's the full directive... it's not particularly long, if you're genuinely interested,

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32003L0088:EN:HTML

It's put into our law with this,

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/contents/made

I'm aware various EU laws exists, I'm interested in the ones you could reasonably say wouldn't exist if we weren't in the EU.

I'm trying to understand the "we need to stay in because we get worker's rights" argument. How many people would be affected if none of the EWTD were to be scrapped tomorrow?

 

[Mulder]

If the law was scrapped do you really think eg. Sports Direct would give their employees breaks as they do now? Would they give them as much holiday?

I doubt many Sportsdirect workers would agree that the EU has helped them out. It was a Guardian report in 2015 that exposed they were paying less than minimum wage, engaged in unfair working practices etc.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Yet again, a sentence saying stuff, no actual list. OK I'll just accept it "covers stuff" and won't worry with any detail

It isn't particularly difficult to read the Working Time Directive you know.

 

[delta0]

£4300 ?

Excellent. So by leaving we'll be nigh on £5k per household better off then !

Job Sorted. We're leaving !!

http://www.iea.org.uk/in-the-media/...cies-threaten-to-cost-britain-£9265-household

Excellent.

The city-am article earlier even does a conservative comparison and concludes we are better off out.

 

[Metallifux]

How is a contradiction? They said it's a flaw (not a floor, honestly what is it with the Brexit gang and spelling/grammar?!) of the Brexit campaign that there are no forecasts post Brexit (Did they? I'll take your word for it) and then produced some themselves?

What is it with the remain crowd and their superiority complex?

 

[Skunkworks]

The most fervent of the remainers do come across as being a bit maladjusted.

 

[Mulder]

The most fervent of the remainers do come across as being a bit maladjusted.

Yep. And they use language like Brexiteers "cannot be bothered to understand what they are forming an opinion on" and then have no reply to a factual post proving they're wrong.

 

[McGray]

So we've descended to name calling?

Marvellous.

 

[Zethor]

Yep. And they use language like Brexiteers "cannot be bothered to understand what they are forming an opinion on" and then have no reply to a factual post proving they're wrong.

Like this, perhaps?

Zether I'm out so will respond to your post later. I still think voting to remain because you're scared of the EU is a woeful argument.

 

[Mulder]

Like this, perhaps?

I was talking about another forum goer p) but I do indeed owe you a reply, thanks for the reminder!

 

[Skunkworks]

So we've descended to name calling?

Marvellous.

A few of the most vocal remainers have been implying anyone wanting to leave is a thick racist since the ref was announced.

 

[McGray]

A few of the most vocal remainers have been implying anyone wanting to leave is a thick racist since the ref was announced.

The brutes! Maybe you should tell a teacher or something?

 

[Skunkworks]

Stop whining about name calling then.

 

[McGray]

No.

 

[Mulder]

Greenland has the population of Paignton, Devon and your comparison is ridiculous. Everything changing for the worse is the prediction of the majority of the economists, scientists, major companies and politicians. Norway has a population 12 times smaller than the UK.

....and yet both Greenland and Norway were able to negotiate deals that work for them with their people saying in increasing numbers they do not want to join the EU. If the UK is so much bigger and more powerful (as you rightly point out) then why can't we negotiate too? Should we be so afraid of the EU that we just accept we're never getting a divorce and that it's too late to make a positive change?

There are plenty of arguments on both sides as has been discussed in this thread, don't try to assert that the "majority" are in favour of Bremain just because they happen to be on the side of the Government.

The Swiss to what the EU tells them to do because they have no choice, no leverage and, more importantly, no votes within the EU. You people want to put the UK in the same position.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-swiss-eu-immigration-croatia-idUSKCN0W60P7

Wrong. Switzerland is a lot smaller than the UK but still has leverage and is able to negotiate with the EU because of its location. A lot of EU transit passes through Switzerland. The Land Transport Agreement between them and the EU contained a number of gives/takes from either side, i.e. it's a negotiation. For example, EU tariffs on cheese, fruit and veg were reduced in order to get the Swiss to sign up to the agreement, as well as the EU committing themselves to bettering access to the transalpine railways.

We should not vote to remain because we might be "bullied" by the EU. That's a fear loving argument and as above we can and will negotiate.

It is a threat and it came from France. Threats have been heard from Germany too and Eastern Europe. If Brexit becomes reality, those politicians will make sure that it hurts the UK so much, no other country will even consider doing something similar. But we have nothing to worry about because we will send, I don't know, Farage to negotiate for us?

The link was relevant because of Hollande's quote, not for the article itself. By posting those links in response to mine, you've crafted a nice little fallacy, the false equivalence.

So we should stay in the club because they're threatening us? Your entire argument is based on "what evil they might do" and "how much of a bully" the EU is, yet....we should remain because of this?

Most people in France want Hollande gone anyway, see here, and would no doubt want their own referendum if we did vote to leave.

It's not our job to keep the EU together.

 

[estebanrey]

We could have done it unilaterally, like I said... but it would have had consequences, like I said, if our economic rivals across the English Channel hadn't adopted similar... so would we have done that?

If the law was scrapped do you really think eg. Sports Direct would give their employees breaks as they do now? Would they give them as much holiday?

I don't see why they would given it's not as if 'annual leave' didn't exist until the late 90s.

To turn your question around, why do the vast majority of employers give more holiday to their staff than the EU minimum?

 

[Tunney]

To turn your question around, why do the vast majority of employers give more holiday to their staff than the EU minimum?

So you're trying to make the point that because most employers offer more than the minimum, there isn't value in having a minimum?

Would you say the same is true for the minimum wage?

 

[estebanrey]

So you're trying to make the point that because most employers offer more than the minimum, there isn't value in having a minimum?

No, I'm pointing out the fragility of 'staying in to protect workers' rights' argument when in fact most people aren't really being protected by anything they wouldn't have without the EU anyway.

 

[scorza]

I see a lot of people saying stay in the EU because they perceive that they get improved workers rights from being in. There's nothing to stop the EU taking away worker's rights though, so how would people feel then? Are people just trusting the Eurocrats to look after us and is that not a bit naive?

 

[Danthus]

Let me ask this, for all those who think leaving the EU is taking the path towards immigration controls, what makes you that any party would actually take measure to reduced the number of people coming into the country?