Old Trafford being evacuated

mmj_uk · 16 May 2016 at 08:24

HangTime said:
Part of me wonders whether it really was "accidentally" left behind or whether it was done so they could conduct a 'real world' exercise. Then part of me wonders why you'd choose the last day of the season to do it. Then the first part of me says the last day is as good as any when it comes to league matches, as it is the match least likely to have a bearing on anything important.

They probably did it so that Sky could have some Tuesday night football. Follow the money.

fez · 16 May 2016 at 10:06

Psycho Ned said:
There was a guy from Sierra Leone come to that game according to the bbc! If you'd spent thousands of pounds to come to the game you'd be more than a little annoyed if they'd done it on purpose!!!

Apparently the united supporters group have seen this and have booked him on a later flight home and have got him into the cup final on sunday. He will obviously get to go to the tuesday match as well.

this_is_gav · 16 May 2016 at 12:25

Harsh for those that travelled a distance as they won't be refunding train fares or fuel or anything.

I'm sure they could have come up with a way way where receipts are checked together with a ticket or something (not that everyone would have kept their receipt but still).

This was ultimately the club at fault yet some supporters will certainly be out of pocket, whether they can attend the rearranged match or not.

spudbynight · 16 May 2016 at 12:48

Robbo said:
Man Utd will refund all ticket holders and then offer free entry to them. Applies to both sides. Will cost around £3m.

Too right!

This security firm can't be much good, failing to find a "bomb" that they themselves planted...

Still not enough to cover costs for any away fans who travelled by train

BaZ87 · 16 May 2016 at 12:57

You can't expect the club to do that. It's no different if your flight is cancelled - the airline will refund your ticket but they won't pay your cost of travel to the airport. That's why you have insurance.

spudbynight · 16 May 2016 at 13:38

BaZ87 said:
You can't expect the club to do that. It's no different if your flight is cancelled - the airline will refund your ticket but they won't pay your cost of travel to the airport. That's why you have insurance.

It all comes down to whether there was negligence on the part of Man Utd. It sounds as if there possibly was.

BaZ87 · 16 May 2016 at 14:01

Moses said:
Not the best example. If you're getting a flight in, into, or out of the EU you get a refund and compensation if the flight is cancelled (or substantially delayed).

It's also different, imo, to normal holidays/travel and the insurance you get for that... how often are top flight matches abandoned? There has to be an epic thunderstorm I remember affecting the French iirc, or crazy winter weather (not an issue in May), etc. That's far, far, far, far, far less likely than the regular delays you get with flights and so forth... to the extent that expecting people to rely on insurance seems unreasonable given it was a mistake by a company brought in by the club (/also missed by its staff).

The compensation isn't directly linked to your travel costs though but yea, I forgot about the compo for delayed flights now.

And yes, it is different but it's still a choice we all make. Anybody that is spending a significant amount (to them) to attend a game should consider these things.

fez · 16 May 2016 at 14:28

spudbynight said:
It all comes down to whether there was negligence on the part of Man Utd. It sounds as if there possibly was.

Not quite sure how there was negligence. An external company left something behind they should not have. Should United check everything after any company they work with has completed their work? What if the person checking the work doesn't do their job properly? There has to be a certain level of trust when you employ people.

Cosimo · 16 May 2016 at 14:35

spudbynight said:
It all comes down to whether there was negligence on the part of Man Utd. It sounds as if there possibly was.

You'll find the clubs ticketing policy will be pretty much in line with that of the FA so they will be covered for that:

5.5. The FA and/or Ground owner will have no further liability whatsoever, including (not limited to) any indirect or consequential loss or damage, loss of enjoyment or travel or accommodation costs.

So free readmission or refund and nothing else, which is perfectly reasonable.

Shamikebab · 16 May 2016 at 14:41

fez said:
Not quite sure how there was negligence. An external company left something behind they should not have. Should United check everything after any company they work with has completed their work? What if the person checking the work doesn't do their job properly? There has to be a certain level of trust when you employ people.

It definitely sounds like negligence to me. Even if you ignore the fact that Utd are responsible for the companies they hire to carry out these exercises on their ground. Why was the package not found in the pre match stadium sweep?

MarcLister · 16 May 2016 at 14:43

Seems like another third party hired the security firm that left the device.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-36302004

So the sniffer dog company hires Old Trafford to test out its ability to check large football grounds/sporting stadia for threats. Said company hires another third party company to place a pretend bomb for the sniffer dogs to find? So two third parties using Old Trafford for something that, on current evidence, didn't have anything to do with the club? If Utd were doing their own tests wouldn't they have hired each company individually?

antijoke · 16 May 2016 at 15:06

MarcLister said:
Seems like another third party hired the security firm that left the device.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-36302004

So the sniffer dog company hires Old Trafford to test out its ability to check large football grounds/sporting stadia for threats. Said company hires another third party company to place a pretend bomb for the sniffer dogs to find? So two third parties using Old Trafford for something that, on current evidence, didn't have anything to do with the club? If Utd were doing their own tests wouldn't they have hired each company individually?

It wouldn't be the first time this season the Old Trafford management didn't know what was going on.

MarcLister · 16 May 2016 at 18:09

anticonscience said:
It wouldn't be the first time this season the Old Trafford management didn't know what was going on.

Haha, true.

Seems that the device was signed back in after the training session. So some idiot didn't retrieve it but it was signed back in regardless. It was left to a club steward and not a sniffer dog to find it on Sunday. :rolleyes:

Was talking to someone at lunch who couldn't understand why the league hadn't, or wasn't thinking, about docking Utd 3 points. I thought it was if the club called the game off because they didn't have enough players or didn't give enough notice that got a points deduction. Regardless it was the police who called the match off on health and safety grounds rather than the club having to admit to the stadium not being ready for whatever reason. I'm guessing the club, and most PL clubs, have insurance to get ticket money back in the event of a game being cancelled by the police?

Shamikebab · 16 May 2016 at 18:11

Deduct points wtf :confused:

Way to punish a club for taking maximum precautions about a possible explosive :rolleyes:

MarcLister · 16 May 2016 at 19:27

Shamikebab said:
Deduct points wtf Way to punish a club for taking maximum precautions about a possible explosive

Yeah.

He is a Chelsea fan so was probably looking to wind me up a bit and stop me from laughing about their season.

BaZ87 · 16 May 2016 at 19:39

While he may be trying to wind you up, I have seen people quoting one of the FA's rules/regs regarding matches being postponed. If Utd are found to be at fault for the postponement they could be deducted points.

You can say Utd done everything right once the alert was raised but were they at fault to begin with?

MarcLister · 16 May 2016 at 19:53

BaZ87 said:
While he may be trying to wind you up, I have seen people quoting one of the FA's rules/regs regarding matches being postponed. If Utd are found to be at fault for the postponement they could be deducted points.

You can say Utd done everything right once the alert was raised but were they at fault to begin with?

If the FA were thinking of deducting points, i.e. 3 points to Bournemouth, would they even bother letting tomorrow night's match go ahead? They might as well say to both clubs that Utd forfeit the fixture and the three points.

If the third parties concerned did 'sign' the suspect package back in and then tell everyone, including the Utd staff, that the stadium was all clear it'd be a very harsh FA that decided to deduct points.

BaZ87 · 16 May 2016 at 19:57

Awarding Bournemouth a win isn't a points deduction to Utd though - they could lose the game anyway.

I'm only really commenting on what you brought up, I have no idea how likely it is Utd will get in any trouble let alone a points deduction however Utd hired this company so they're ultimately responsible still.

Psycho Ned · 16 May 2016 at 20:02

If there was more riding on it it would have been an interesting one.

Say United were only 2 or 3 goals behind City on goal difference them not playing on Sunday would mean they now know what they'd need to get 4th. If it turned out to be a mistake on United/a third party or whoevers part I'm sure City would put in a complaint about it it if cost them 4th.

Be a tricky one for the FA to decide on. As it is its an utterly pointless game that no doubt United will stick a reserve team out for! Which again in some ways I suppose Palace could argue has disadvantaged them as United would have played a strong team on Sunday now they won't.

Kenai · 16 May 2016 at 20:13

Psycho Ned said:
If there was more riding on it it would have been an interesting one.

Say United were only 2 or 3 goals behind City on goal difference them not playing on Sunday would mean they now know what they'd need to get 4th. If it turned out to be a mistake on United/a third party or whoevers part I'm sure City would put in a complaint about it it if cost them 4th.

Be a tricky one for the FA to decide on. As it is its an utterly pointless game that no doubt United will stick a reserve team out for! Which again in some ways I suppose Palace could argue has disadvantaged them as United would have played a strong team on Sunday now they won't.

It's not entirely pointless, don't forget that if they don't win they finish 6th and a Cup win isn't guaranteed. It could be the difference between group stage Europa League and qualifying round Europa League for them.