Brexit thread - what happens next

dowie · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:42

We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.

are people that stupid... we'd have a referendum every 6 months or so under those conditions

Mr Jack · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:43

Buckster said:
I think my wife is dual-nationality French

so maybe that gives options

If I'm reading this correctly you can get French nationality if you've been married for five years and live together regardless of country of residence.

toshj · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:43

MichaelAwkward said:
The EU didn't exist in the 1980s.

I took that from another forum - it's not my neck of the woods, however I took their point as fact. Happy to concede if that's not the case:

When the Tories had done their worst to the north east in the 1980's, the north east of England qualified for a grant from the Eu which would normally be only available to third world countries.
Thatcher wanted the grant to be paid direct to Westminster, to be "distributed". The EU refused saying that the grant was for the north east and that is where it will go. Thatcher threw her handbag about but the EU stuck to their guns saying that if they did not give the money to the north east then they would not give it at all.- Thatcher relented.
The lesson learnt?- don't expect money from the tories

Radox-0 · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:44

Devastated, but whats done is done.

However I think what this vote has really highlighted is the massive divide / disjoint in parts of the country. I guess my question is what are the actual demands from the people who voted out. I see terms like Sovereignty, Democracy thrown around etc. But what are some actual things we can now fix to bring the two sides together now that we will eventually have full sovereignty as its put.

By the way genuine question, been mulling in my head for days the exact core issues are (not just screen words) and what needs to be done to fix them.

krooton · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:44

SPG said:
Your point is.... a different ruling class to our own ruling class ?

I have just took this snippet from Wikipedia regarding the current EU head honcho....

" In early November 2014, just days after becoming head of the commission, Juncker was hit by media disclosures—derived from a document leak known as LuxLeaks—that Luxembourg under his premiership had turned into a major European centre of corporate tax avoidance. With the aid of the Luxembourg government, companies transferred tax liability for many billions of euros to Luxembourg, where the income was taxed at a fraction of 1%. Juncker, who in a speech in Brussels in July 2014 promised to "try to put some morality, some ethics, into the European tax landscape", was sharply criticized following the leaks.[53] A subsequent motion of censure in the European parliament was brought against Juncker over his role in the tax avoidance schemes. The motion was defeated by a large majority.[54] "

So you see, we have zero control or accountability to these people.... But your happy to hand your future to them ?

Sorry something stinks in the EU and aside from London and the foolish Scots (they need EU money and is a Greece waiting to happen)

http://www.filmsforaction.org/artic...the-uk-just-kicked-neoliberalism-in-the-nuts/

I voted Remain, but the more I read about the EU, the more I dislike it

MichaelAwkward · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:45

toshj said:
I took that from another forum - it's not my neck of the woods, however I took their point as fact. Happy to concede if that's not the case:

When the Tories had done their worst to the north east in the 1980's, the north east of England qualified for a grant from the Eu which would normally be only available to third world countries.
Thatcher wanted the grant to be paid direct to Westminster, to be "distributed". The EU refused saying that the grant was for the north east and that is where it will go. Thatcher threw her handbag about but the EU stuck to their guns saying that if they did not give the money to the north east then they would not give it at all.- Thatcher relented.
The lesson learnt?- don't expect money from the tories

Even if they're referring to the EEC, that was a very different organisation to the EU and not really comparable.

metachi · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:48

Some say we’ll need visas to go to Europe?

datalol-jack · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:48

toshj said:
I took that from another forum - it's not my neck of the woods, however I took their point as fact. Happy to concede if that's not the case:

When the Tories had done their worst to the north east in the 1980's, the north east of England qualified for a grant from the Eu which would normally be only available to third world countries.
Thatcher wanted the grant to be paid direct to Westminster, to be "distributed". The EU refused saying that the grant was for the north east and that is where it will go. Thatcher threw her handbag about but the EU stuck to their guns saying that if they did not give the money to the north east then they would not give it at all.- Thatcher relented.
The lesson learnt?- don't expect money from the tories

Money we can't control. Did anyone up there honestly think it meant them or their local government? In Gove's calculus, it'd be: want money? np. here's a cut on business rates and taxes -- earn it yourself; can't? no skills? no infrastructure? businesses fleeing? not my problem, the market will sort you out -- play to your edge. etc.

datalol-jack · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:51

metachi said:
Some say we’ll need visas to go to Europe?

Not at the moment. If they don't mess with freedom of movement, then no; if they do, then potentially yes, provided no visa deal can be agreed shortly afterwards.

MichaelAwkward · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:51

metachi said:
Some say we’ll need visas to go to Europe?

Unlikely for tourism and short visits.

Jono8 · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:52

datalol-jack said:
If they don't mess with freedom of movement

Which would completely undermine the leave vote, just as much as running a 2nd referendum!

McPhee · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:53

metachi said:
Some say we’ll need visas to go to Europe?

Maybe. There's not really any need for that, as an agreement could probably be reached. Depends how difficult the EU wants to make things for us though I guess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_European_Union_citizens

SpeedFreak · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:54

dowie said:
are people that stupid... we'd have a referendum every 6 months or so under those conditions

I think the issue of a referendum is that it is a snap shot of opinion at a point in time. I get the impression you could run this in/out vote 10 times and it would be split 5-5 depending on what had been in the news the night before. For me the question is, should 52% (or 34% depending on how you frame it) have the right to fundamentally change the lives of the rest?

datalol-jack · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:54

Jono8 said:
Which would completely undermine the leave vote, just as much as running a 2nd referendum!

I'll gloat gloriously if it's staying and Bo has to sell it to a vocal leave faction that really cared about an Australian points system for immigration.

Cern · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:54

metachi said:
Some say we’ll need visas to go to Europe?

Depends if freedom of movement is part of any exit deal. If it is, then no visa needed. But since blocking freedom of movement was a central pillar of the Brexit campaign, who knows what will be agreed. Depends who is doing the negotiating I guess and how much backpeddling they are willing to do.

BubbySoup · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:55

Jokester said:
Sadly, when those in power at the EU talk about the EU project, you know that they have an end game (Federal Europe) that they are working towards. Nothing will change that whilst the EU exists in it's current form.

Yeah, stuff like this makes me think in the long run we might just be better off;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-in-a-few-years-says-Jose-Manuel-Barroso.html

As much as I'm not really enjoying the idea of being on our own, neither would I want to be a part of a Federal Europe.

The Mad Rapper · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:56

metachi said:
Some say we’ll need visas to go to Europe?

Is that a chore?

itchy · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:57

I am only going to make one comment in this thread about this, as I have had enough to the back teeth of it. :mad:

The special ********* generation don't get it, they think they can change things by shouting down and screaming we are wrong.

Welcome to the real world and the is no safe space or naughty step anymore, its the real world deal with it.

I am no activist but if the MPs reject this vote, I will be on the streets as we are suppose to be a democratic society.

Not please mum can I have my Ipad back society and just give in, just for peace and calm.

Real world, real issues deal with it.

MichaelAwkward · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:58

Cern said:
Depends if freedom of movement is part of any exit deal. If it is, then no visa needed.

It doesn't. Plenty of non-EU countries have visa free travel to the EU. Those agreements are unrelated to free movement. Visas will only be be needed to live and work there (long term).

Hotwired · 25 Jun 2016 at 23:59

The Mad Rapper said:
Is that a chore?

Applying weeks in advance of any trip.

Sounds like that puts a damper on any short term plans so yeah, I'd call that a chore.