Brexit thread - what happens next

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phil675 said:
Just a question to remainers mostly because I'm interested in their motivations.

Did you vote remain because you are happy with the way things are right now, or are you happy with the future course of more EU policy, integration leading to the EU superstate?

What is your ideal vision of Europe?
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I have no major complaints about the way things are. I understand frustrations imposed on us by the EU, but they are no different to compromises you have to make in a relationship.

I have benefited a lot from EU integration (on a personal/people level) and would go as far as saying it has enriched my life. We always talk about teamwork being better than going at it alone, so why not here as well.
 
pioneer2000 said:
Why is anyone so intent to stay somewhere that they do not feel safe?!
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Because they might not have a choice. Because they have the guts to stay. Because they hope the nation will come to its senses. Because plenty of other perfectly legitimate reasons.

You sound like the sort of person who is happy when racial abuse forces people out of the neighbourhood they were born and raised in.
 
pioneer2000 said:
Yes, if it's as life-ruiningly bad as he's making out, with people physically and verbally assaulting him, then any sensible person would get the hell out of there.

Why is anyone so intent to stay somewhere that they do not feel safe?!
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I see, you're not condoning the behaviour, merely saying that when it gets this bad self preservation should prevail...

That makes it a little better, but it is still an odd thing to say. The fact of the matter is that these situations should not be happening in the first place...
 
Six6siX said:
I don't recall your second sentence being there when I quoted you. Makes no odds.

Your attitude is appalling; I'm actually embarrassed for you.

And FYI I'm British born.
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There's no need to get all precious, I'm simply saying that if it's THAT bad, then why make your life miserable? There's plenty of other places (including different areas of the UK) that you could live in perfect harmony.

You want there to be a problem, so you can validate your "minority victim" status.
 
I can see the point you're trying to make, pioneer2000, but you are mis-applying your logic.

People aren't saying "what should I do"?, in which circumstance, advice to move elsewhere might be appropriate. They're saying "how is this happening?", "Why is this happening?", "look at the affect of our collective actions".

Your response sounds a lot like failing to condemn the actions behind the hurt, and instead suggesting the victims bring it upon themselves.
 
pioneer2000 said:
Did you not quote my second sentence in order to make a fuss about nothing?

If it's that bad, and you know you cannot change it, then yes, it would be wiser to relocate. Trying to go against the tide is fruitless and will only serve to make your life miserable.

Once again, if it is so bad (with racism at every turn), why have you chosen to settle here rather than anywhere less so?

I experience casual "racism" indirectly quite often, with people holding the bizarre belief that the German people were all Nazi's etc, but no I cannot claim to be physically abused etc (however I guarantee that you are exagerrating matters here).
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This makes me so sad. :(
 
Hxc said:
Enact article 50, throw the country into disarray for years to come, screw *everybody*.
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You don't know that it will for certain. Once article 50 is enacted the talks begin on how to remove the UK from the EU in the best possible manner for both sides.

Wouldn't we be able to make new trade deals with non-EU countries which we couldn't or were restricted to before?

Can we not now pick and choose who we deal with around the world and how we deal with them? On our terms rather than those imposed on us by the EU?

I voted remain btw. Just trying to find positives in the outcome.
 
pioneer2000 said:
There's no need to get all precious, I'm simply saying that if it's THAT bad, then why make your life miserable? There's plenty of other places (including different areas of the UK) that you could live in perfect harmony.

You want there to be a problem, so you can validate your "minority victim" status.
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Keep going, tell me more about how victims of actual racial abuse are at fault and should change their lives?
 
pioneer2000 said:
You want there to be a problem, so you can validate your "minority victim" status.
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Wow. I take it all back.

Do you actually think before you say something?

Six6siX said:
Keep going, tell me more about how victims of actual racial abuse are at fault and should change their lives?
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Lets not, it is clearly a lost cause and pursuing it won't lead anywhere nice. He keeps digging his hole deeper, clambering out of it, and then falling back in.
 
pioneer2000 said:
There's no need to get all precious, I'm simply saying that if it's THAT bad, then why make your life miserable? There's plenty of other places (including different areas of the UK) that you could live in perfect harmony.

You want there to be a problem, so you can validate your "minority victim" status.
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Could this have been posted in Germany, just before the war?
 
pioneer2000 said:
There's no need to get all precious, I'm simply saying that if it's THAT bad, then why make your life miserable? There's plenty of other places (including different areas of the UK) that you could live in perfect harmony.

You want there to be a problem, so you can validate your "minority victim" status.
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Please cease posting on this specific discussion.
 
Gilly said:
Again, why would he plan for an eventuality he didn't want and wasn't campaigning for? He wanted in. Boris and Co. wanted out, why aren't you caling them for their plan?
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He called a referendum. He's the Prime Minister, it's his job to prepare for both eventualities.
 
Acme said:
I see, you're not condoning the behaviour, merely saying that when it gets this bad self preservation should prevail...

That makes it a little better, but it is still an odd thing to say. The fact of the matter is that these situations should not be happening in the first place...
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Yes, sorry, perhaps poorly worded.

You're going to waste many good years of your life trying to change the attitude of such an area. Life is too short!
 
The reality of enacting Article 50 has slowly dawn on some people, at least that's a plus...

I liked how we are, we don't live in the world in isolation, the EU is not the enemy, they are our trading partners and allies, there was no reason to make them the enemy and we need them no matter what. We can't live like North Korea and close our borders, so the entire thing made no sense.
 
People seem to be starting to advocate a type of meritocracy now where we should dismiss what the people want in favour of what the educated classes believe is best for us all. Also interesting to observe that very few people now argue against the notion that the EU ultimately is destined to become a federalised EU superstate.

In many ways, I wish this referendum had been more absolute in its determination.

Remain: Embrace the superstate / opt for meritocracy.
Leave: Maintain national Sovereignty / a democratic process.

I don't think many Remain voters truly understand where the EU is headed. But maybe they do and I'm wrong to assume that. Not sure what frightens me more. Maybe they are right. Perhaps sovereignty and democracy are historic relics now and "Little England" is still trapped in 19th century thinking.
 
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