Brexit thread - what happens next

[ChroniC]

But we're not going to have no regulation, I mean we still want factories to not pollute our rivers, and we still want the toasters we buy not to explode. We're just going to have different regulation. Instead of working with our neighbours and using a common set of regulation, we're going to have our own set of slightly different rules. And their rules too, when we want to sell to them.

It's stupid.

Brighter men that me know why their regulations are restrictive to the UK, and I don't think it is to do with health and safety. I believe it is more to do with prices your able to sell and buy things at.
I'm not going to start spouting the reason as I don't know.

 

[Mr Jack]

He's an absolute imposter that has duped middle england into believing he's a "man of the people" for his own ends.

The fact is he's a millionaire, public school educated, retired city trader who has won votes as the alternative to millionaire public school educated politicians who pander to the banks... that's not much of an alternative

And advocates a host of policies that would screw the poor: scraping the NHS and replacing it with private health insurance; a flat tax; less regulation; and so on.

 

[StriderX]

Well lets be honest, we cant fund the NHS forever, like most social programs, if you don't also attempt to reduce the need for them... you lose on all fronts.

Something has to give, otherwise we just end up with mediocre programs and an annoyed populace.

 

[datalol-jack]

hardly a pipe dream... at least as far as Australia, Canada and New Zealand are concerned - quite a few from those countries would be very keen to forge greater links with us and to arrange better terms for movement of people between those countries

Arguably for all three it makes more sense to become more involved in Asia than attempt some weak return to Imperial preference-lite. They'll deal with us, but a Union of Commonwealth States is indeed a pipedream, especially considering it in any shape resembling the European common market, and would take generations to build anyway; by which time the world might have shifted again, and even more outside our sphere of influence.

But I see why being a tax haven on stilts might be attractive for some.

 

[do_ron_ron]

Destabilising the EU now is seen as destabilising said aim. WW3? Meh, but something along the lines of a Yugoslavian split and more extremism that thrives on economic instability nearer to home is quite possible in the worst case scenario. And how's that good for anyone?

What extremism/racialism? That's all Project Fear, right?

 

[the_r_sole]

You've not answered the question, perhaps because you can't - how do you think he has shafted you? It just sounds like mindless rhetoric 'oh no he's worked in the city therefore he's evil'

well, during the last recession caused by the industry where he made his millions - I was made redundant and had to move, had to set up a self employed as the only way to sustain myself.
This current uncertainty has meant two of our biggest projects are on hold indefinitely, I have just bought a house and am supporting a wife and 1 year old - If i lose this job, I am well and truly shafted again

 

[dowie]

I've been watching a few US news channels and it's interesting to note that many US economists, ex diplomats, politicians etc are confident the UK will do well in the long run outside the EU. Odd how they are seemingly more positive than UK pundits.

Feels like US has more faith in UK than the UK has in its own ability to thrive as a Nation state at the moment.

nah it is mostly just media scare stories... which are partly pandering to the fact that a lot of the country is still miffed and that there is little concrete information to write about since we've not invoked article 50 nor started negotiating... doom and gloom makes for better stories than realising that actually it isn't the end of the world and we can do perfectly well as a nation outside the EU. Still plenty in this thread are still buying into the whole project fear aspect.... and a few days of volatility seem to have them now convinced that they were right.

 

[Hotwired]

We may have been a big voice, but not to the same level of France and certainly not Germany.

They ultimately get the support of all other nations in the EU, even within it we were alone.

Come off it.

The UK has always been this sarcastic outsider even within the EU.

Europe has always been treated as "them" across the channel and not "us".

Despite all that the UK still had a good voice in the EU even if we were more demanding of special treatment rather than unity. Many countries have nowhere near as much say at the table.

 

[datalol-jack]

Wow. Never heard anyone say this before. Enlighten us all on why the EU will collapse in the three or so months.

Ho ho, what's more Ol' Nige will do the collapsing with his far-right mates in Holland and France... erm.. no. Lol, that's just too much lizard and tinfoil, even for GD.

 

[Arazi]

Farage was a National embarrassment yesterday and showed he cares not a jot about the UK, this entire thing is nothing but a personal gripe that has grown to a self edifying crusade. His attendance of 40% places him second from last at 745th out of 746 MEP's is utterly shocking, he was only saved from being last because the chap who is last is apparently paralysed and in hospital!

Well if he finished in that position surely his expenses would have been a lot less than all those who's attendedance was better

 

[dowie]

well, during the last recession caused by the industry where he made his millions - I lost was made redundant and had to move, had to set up a self employed as the only way to sustain myself.
This current uncertainty has meant two of our biggest projects are on hold indefinitely, I have just bought a house and am supporting a wife and 1 year old - If i lose this job, I am well and truly shafted again

See you don't really understand what you're talking about - he was a metals broker - he bought and sold non-ferrous metals - how is that in any way related to the financial crisis?

 

[StriderX]

Arguably for all three it makes more sense to become more involved in Asia than attempt some weak return to Imperial preference-lite. They'll deal with us, but a Union of Commonwealth States is indeed a pipedream, especially considering it in any shape resembling the European common market, and would take generations to build anyway; by which time the world might have shifted again, and even more outside our sphere of influence.

But I see why being a tax haven on stilts might be attractive for some.

I dont see how it would be too difficult to get an agreement going with the Aussies, Kiwis and Canadians... we're all practically the same ideology.

I think once the five eyes are as close as possible, we can do as we please.

 

[the_r_sole]

See you don't really understand what you're talking about - he was a metals broker - he bought and sold non-ferrous metals - how is that in any way related to the financial crisis?

sorry you're right, of course city traders had nothing to do with the financial crisis, farage also has nothing to do the current uncertainty either, I'm just imaging it - I'm off for a nice hearty pint of ale and a pasty with my salt o the earth, english through and through mate nige

 

[do_ron_ron]

Brighter men that me know why their regulations are restrictive to the UK, and I don't think it is to do with health and safety. I believe it is more to do with prices your able to sell and buy things at.
I'm not going to start spouting the reason as I don't know.

To a limited extent you are right, EU regulation do state the necessary quality of a good before you can be asked to pay a premium price. But I fail to see why this is a problem except to the Del Boys of this world.

 

[datalol-jack]

I dont see how it would be too difficult to get an agreement going with the Aussies, Kiwis and Canadians... we're all practically the same ideology.

That's a common British take on this, and as expats can attest it's also commonly wrong. We are far from 'same', heck even Kiwis and Aussies aren't clones in terms of their approach to issues like consumer rights, workers, markets, etc, and it doesn't remove the legal difficulty of forging trade links, staff requirements and time for those links to bear meaningful fruit.

Moreover, people also labour under the illusion that Commonwealth countries will hand us any more favourable deal that for say Vietnam, Singapore, SK or the like, merely on a good feeling. I'd wager they'll argue for fairly tit-for-tat terms, angling for advantage just as hard if not harder than the EU, knowing our difficulties in Europe. So although we might get to dictate to New Zealand, Canada and Australia would end up dictating a few uncomfortable things back, again re food, raw materials, services and other magical things.

Then you wake up one day and face several more trade deficits and more expensive shipment costs in a less regulated market. Isn't the Commonwealth wonderful?

 

[dowie]

sorry you're right, of course city traders had nothing to do with the financial crisis, farage also has nothing to do the current uncertainty either, I'm just imaging it - I'm off for a nice hearty pint of ale and a pasty with my salt o the earth, english through and through mate nige

I am right and you're just showing how massively ignorant you are of the city.

Care to explain how a broker buying and selling metals on the LME has anything to do with the financial crisis? You can't because he didn't

your argument is "OMG he's one of those city people and they're evil and therefore to blame for me losing my job'

Are people who work at shipping firms also responsible? How about Lawyers at the international law firms in the city - is it their fault too? What about the people at the technology firms? They're all somehow responsible for credit derivatives because they work in an office in the same area doing stuff you don't understand?

 

[Amp34]

Many of the voters are going to be angry now that freedom of movement is a must.

No single market access otherwise.

We need that to survive, surely.

They were told this by the remain campaign, the various EU institutions and members and multiple other sources. If they chose to believe Farage instead then there is only one group they should be angry at. Themselves.

The more backtracking we get from the leave campaign the more the realization that we have just screwed up the best deal in the EU for nothing is coming true.

 

[do_ron_ron]

And advocates a host of policies that would screw the poor: scraping the NHS and replacing it with private health insurance; a flat tax; less regulation; and so on.

Indeed a look at the policies Farage was initially proposing does show he is quite right wing. He did initially support an insurance based NHS then flipped when almost everybody rejected this. He has flipped flopped as much as Trump.

 

[Arazi]

Allow free movement with no benefits paid, in-work, housing or otherwise for 2-3 years.

All problems solved.

I agree with that, if people wanted to come here to only work then that is not a problem, coming here to just claim benefits is ridiculous, remain would have won if that option was on the table before the vote.

 

[datalol-jack]

They were told this by the remain campaign, the various EU institutions and members and multiple other sources. If they chose to believe Farage instead then there is only one group they should be angry at. Themselves.

The more backtracking we get from the leave campaign the more the realization that we have just screwed up the best deal in the EU for nothing is coming true.

Gove was particularly ashen the day after. I think it dawned on him that sabotaging Osborne in favour of himself might not be now such a great idea, after all.